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post #51 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-02-12, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
It's not the store manager that annoys me - we've had one who had his retard setting set to 11, but apart from that we've been quite lucky. No, the people that dissuade me from the FLGS are the other people. I should learn to stay out of arguments, but I can't help it sometimes and I get caught into an argument with a whole group of elitist ubergeeks who play Guard with Conscripts, Deathwing, and Footdar and will NOT admit that they are a bad army.

Midnight
Personally I'll say I don't believe in "bad" or "good" armies. I see it this way: an army is a lot like a gun. If you're well versed in all it's ins and outs and know what you're doing you can do great things with it. Now some guns are more accurate or have longer ranges which does makes these sorts of things easier for sure, but if you're not skilled with it, or don't feel comfortable with it, it's not going to work for you and it won't perform as well as the gun you've practiced with and grown accustomed to. The same goes for an army. If you know the ins and outs of your army, and are comfortable with how to play it then you have the same potential of winning as the guy who jumps armies looking for the easiest way to win.

The problem that you can easilly run into in this case is when the skilled player comes along with one of these higher caliber armies, as like facing a skilled marksman with a more accurate rifle, you'll have to work hard to win, and will be punished harder for your mistakes. Does it make you less capable of winning? Only marginally, as even a simple army can have devastating effects in the right hands.

Just to finish up on my poor analogy here's an article about a Finish sniper who fought in the Winter War against Russia. Using just a rifle (a rather short varient of the Mosin Nagant) with just the iron sights and his skills he racked up 505 confirmed kills against the Russian Army. To me it's proof that a skilled man with a weapon he's comfortable with (he chose the rifle because it fit his small size) can do great things despite the odds. And less lethally so can a wargamer.

Simo Hayha
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post #52 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-02-12, 10:48 PM
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In the nicest possible way...bullshit.

Read THESE lists, and tell me there's no such thing as a 'bad list'...
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post #53 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-03-12, 12:09 AM
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In the nicest possible way...bullshit.

Read THESE lists, and tell me there's no such thing as a 'bad list'...
While I was talking about armies that the internet says suck, fluffy armies that the internet says suck and generally speaking sure. Now without digging through my codex collection to decipher these (as I honestly don't have every single rule and model memorized, sorry) I can see what you're driving at. From what I'm gleaning from a quick scan through is very specialized lists that aren't balanced in the way you're standard competitive list is.

Now I can't say these are bad, just limited. It's like saying a flamethrower is bad because all it does is throw fire. Will they be able to compete against balanced lists or things they didn't prepare for? Not a chance. But given a situation the player designed (or played in the hands of someone who knows why the army works this way and how to make it effective) for they'll do fine. Just because you don't agree with how or why the army was built that way doesn't make it "bad", just different from your preferences.

Then again I play a "bad" army at a point level that it doesn't work on and regularly win against Marines (but ties against Venomspam Dark Eldar). So you can probably safely write my opinions off as the statements by someone who has been tainted by strange ideas and is likely just rebelling against the idea that you need to play certain things and do certain things to win.

Maybe what I'm just trying to say with my long posts and strange analogies is to not count people out, even if they play armies that are less than stellar looking on paper.
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post #54 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-03-12, 01:09 AM
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Okay, there are no balanced lists that are bad - no-one would argue with that, right?
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post #55 of 55 (permalink) Old 05-03-12, 01:21 AM
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Okay, there are no balanced lists that are bad - no-one would argue with that, right?
That's most reasonable thing I've seen online in a while when it comes to how good/bad lists are. Sadly someone is bound to try and argue it, but I agree. Balanced lists are only limited by the dice (aka chance) and the players (aka skill).
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