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post #31 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-15-12, 03:22 AM
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Okay first off Cortana was not a Forerunner AI, rather she was given all the knowledge they had gleamed from the Reach artifact and presumably similar artifacts. With what they revealed in Halo 4 we can't even be sure that the artifact shown in Reach is Forerunner in origin. And actually if you think about it, how did Cortana in Halo 1 understand Halo's systems as well as she did. After all those Forerunner systems would have been at best difficult for her to interface, translate and understand.

Secondly I'm not going to address the badmouthing of the Star Wars prequels because I've done it far too many times from raging fans who can't comprehend that no prequel (or sequel) could truly capture the feelings the original brought out in us. Plus this is a Halo, Bungie and 343 thread so I don't want to go off on a tangent about a different topic.

However my mentioning of Star Wars and its canon does fit what I was trying to say. Both universes have layers of canon the top of which sits the Prime Canon which for Star Wars is the movies and for Halo the games. Halo Reach's canon supersedes The Fall of Reach's canon just as the canon of the sequel SW trilogy will overwrite any conflicting canon in the various novels and other media in the Expanded Universe despite coming out long before them.

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post #32 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-15-12, 08:35 PM
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There's something I've wondering about. In the opening cutscene of Halo 4 they introduced something really caught me off guard, something they've never quite talked about in any of the media, a question I'm curious to hear what other people think.

Are the Spartan-IIs and Spartan-IIIs fundamentally broken as human beings as a result of their training? And were they so successful because they were these children that had been kidnapped and broken down into killing-machines?

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post #33 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-16-12, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akatsuki13 View Post
Okay first off Cortana was not a Forerunner AI, rather she was given all the knowledge they had gleamed from the Reach artifact and presumably similar artifacts. With what they revealed in Halo 4 we can't even be sure that the artifact shown in Reach is Forerunner in origin. And actually if you think about it, how did Cortana in Halo 1 understand Halo's systems as well as she did. After all those Forerunner systems would have been at best difficult for her to interface, translate and understand.

Secondly I'm not going to address the badmouthing of the Star Wars prequels because I've done it far too many times from raging fans who can't comprehend that no prequel (or sequel) could truly capture the feelings the original brought out in us. Plus this is a Halo, Bungie and 343 thread so I don't want to go off on a tangent about a different topic.

However my mentioning of Star Wars and its canon does fit what I was trying to say. Both universes have layers of canon the top of which sits the Prime Canon which for Star Wars is the movies and for Halo the games. Halo Reach's canon supersedes The Fall of Reach's canon just as the canon of the sequel SW trilogy will overwrite any conflicting canon in the various novels and other media in the Expanded Universe despite coming out long before them.
Heres a hypothetical for you. IF GW made a Horus Heresy t.v. series, or a long series of movies in which, fundamentally, everything we knew from the books that came before was thrown out the window, would you go with what you've read in the books, or got with the GW films/ t.v. series as canon simply because they said so? Suppose they made it to where Horus was one of the last to be found, and was not named Warmaster. Suppose they put the primarchs with different legions. Suppose the dropsite massacre failed. Perhaps the cull at Isstvan 3 failed as well. Perhaps a single space marine is able to kill an untouched primarch in single combat. Incompetence on a massive scale that would see the legions fight a thousand year civil war, making the most retarded mistakes imaginable and diluting the cool factor of Space Marines. Perhaps the Space Marines are second to the regular military regiments that accompany them. What if they just changed EVERYTHING: every little thing about the universe and said "Hey this is the new canon. Those books there on your bookshelf are now just useless piles of wasted paper and money." There are many other things I can think of. I'm sure you all can also think of things that GW could change that would drastically alter the Warhammer universe as we all know it. So would you consider the movies canon as overwriting the canon of the books simply because GW said so? Or would you think for yourself what you believe is canon rather than being told what is, no matter how retarded it is at that point prior to before that point. Again, purely hypothetical, I know it will never happen.

That question is answered in the intro through the spartans actions in the intro. It also details their thought processes conerning this topic in the book The Fall of Reach, but, well, we've already been over that. I think it also details the same thing in other books, but i'm not sure

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post #34 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-16-12, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Akatsuki13 View Post
Okay first off Cortana was not a Forerunner AI, rather she was given all the knowledge they had gleamed from the Reach artifact and presumably similar artifacts. With what they revealed in Halo 4 we can't even be sure that the artifact shown in Reach is Forerunner in origin. And actually if you think about it, how did Cortana in Halo 1 understand Halo's systems as well as she did. After all those Forerunner systems would have been at best difficult for her to interface, translate and understand.

Secondly I'm not going to address the badmouthing of the Star Wars prequels because I've done it far too many times from raging fans who can't comprehend that no prequel (or sequel) could truly capture the feelings the original brought out in us. Plus this is a Halo, Bungie and 343 thread so I don't want to go off on a tangent about a different topic.

However my mentioning of Star Wars and its canon does fit what I was trying to say. Both universes have layers of canon the top of which sits the Prime Canon which for Star Wars is the movies and for Halo the games. Halo Reach's canon supersedes The Fall of Reach's canon just as the canon of the sequel SW trilogy will overwrite any conflicting canon in the various novels and other media in the Expanded Universe despite coming out long before them.
Usually the word construct is used to describle forrunner tech.

Also I want you to address the star wars part. There's tons of fan stories that would make a far better series than the prequels.

Finally. Reach sucked, instead of the unstoppable juggernaut that was the covenant they because a bunch wimps. You read the fall of reach and you understand the terror that the covenant are. Hoardes of grunts swarming marine emplacements. Crawling over their own dead to get to you. Jackals that can hold their own against whole squads spartan squads moving lightning fast.

All the game does is make then a lobotomized version of what they could be.
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post #35 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-16-12, 02:09 AM
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DeathJester921:That's kind of a bad example as GW revised the Horus Heresy several times over the course of the gameline. In fact they actually have already done a major recent revision of the canon in 40k, the new Necrons. Which goes to show that if GW decides to come up with new canon than it is the new canon. As I've been those who hold the license can do whatever they want with it because they have creative control over it. You don't like it too bad because that's the way it is.

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post #36 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-16-12, 03:24 AM
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Finally. Reach sucked, instead of the unstoppable juggernaut that was the covenant they because a bunch wimps. You read the fall of reach and you understand the terror that the covenant are. Hoardes of grunts swarming marine emplacements. Crawling over their own dead to get to you. Jackals that can hold their own against whole squads spartan squads moving lightning fast.

All the game does is make then a lobotomized version of what they could be.
It is an objective fact that in any good game, gameplay balance and pacing is ALWAYS a more important factor that rigid and detrimental adherence to lore. There are no exceptions to this.

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post #37 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-16-12, 04:25 AM
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Usually the word construct is used to describle forrunner tech.
Actually no. Construct is a generic term that can encompass any piece of technology. In the first Halo Guilty Spark refers to Cortana as a construct.

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Also I want you to address the star wars part. There's tons of fan stories that would make a far better series than the prequels.
Again no. I can tell already that if I do post that you'll just ranting and this Halo thread will turn into Star Wars thread so I'm not going to.

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Finally. Reach sucked, instead of the unstoppable juggernaut that was the covenant they because a bunch wimps. You read the fall of reach and you understand the terror that the covenant are. Hoardes of grunts swarming marine emplacements. Crawling over their own dead to get to you. Jackals that can hold their own against whole squads spartan squads moving lightning fast.

All the game does is make then a lobotomized version of what they could be.
A bunch of whips? Were you expecting them to have thousands and thousands of Grunts, Jackals and Elites storming down on you for most of the game? Cause I gotta tell outside of cutscenes none of the current platforms could support something like that. Truthfully I found Halo Reach to be the only game in the series where I felt that the Covenant were unstoppable. Halo 1 the Covenant felt like the initial enemy before the Flood and Guilty Spark showed up. Halo 2 and 3 they were much larger and intimidating but at the same time it was offset by the Arbiter and the Civil War. ODST didn't quite have the whole invasion down as well as they could have but playing as the Rookie did have the 'Oh crap! I'm alone behind enemy lines.' feel to it. But in Reach I found things more grim and fatalistic, due in no small part to the fact we already know how it will end and in that a number of the levels truly conveyed the sense that I was facing down elements of a massive invasion force.

Beyond that Halo Reach is the first entry in the series where I actually felt something because of the story and there were a few moments were I actually wanted the game to somehow rewrite the canon so I could save Reach.

Of course I know you're not going to change your mind nor will you change mine with your arguments so really we're just beating a wall here.

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post #38 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-16-12, 04:33 AM
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ODST didn't quite have the whole invasion down as well as they could have but playing as the Rookie did have the 'Oh crap! I'm alone behind enemy lines.' feel to it.
Personally, I think that ODST was the only game of the series with any atmosphere whatsoever, and handled what it did amazingly. Not to say the others are bad, but they're really just a glorified evolution from Doom-esque "get from point A to point B, shoot C and don't die to D" formula shooters.

ODST, however, had the post-invasion atmosphere down perfectly. And that's what you have to remember. It wasn't in the middle of the fight. It was after the initial attack. After the humans retaliated, after the Covenant opened up a shitstorm in the atmosphere.

You were alone, you were outnumbered, you very rarely had enough ammo to engage a squad on ideal terms, and the enemy drops were dynamic and you tried your damnedest to avoid and evade the


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post #39 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-16-12, 04:48 AM
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True and yeah like I said they really nailed being alone and trapped behind enemy lines and just how scary that can be. I think a big part of that was that we weren't playing as a Spartan. By the end of my first playthrough I was paranoid every time I was the Rookie simply because I was alone, outnumbered and without shields. I never realized how much I relied on those until I didn't have them anymore.

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post #40 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-16-12, 08:33 AM
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Beyond that Halo Reach is the first entry in the series where I actually felt something because of the story and there were a few moments were I actually wanted the game to somehow rewrite the canon so I could save Reach.
Let's not forget the fucking epic final 'mission'. That alone made the game for me and was an awesome little bit of story/gameplay meshing.

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True and yeah like I said they really nailed being alone and trapped behind enemy lines and just how scary that can be. I think a big part of that was that we weren't playing as a Spartan. By the end of my first playthrough I was paranoid every time I was the Rookie simply because I was alone, outnumbered and without shields. I never realized how much I relied on those until I didn't have them anymore.
Technically you did have shields though, because the Rookie's stamina worked the same way. I was a little disappointed that they didn't focus on the stealthy aspect of the game more.

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