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post #11 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 10:23 AM
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I've found Halo 4 to be quite disappointing. So far I've only played through the campaign, which was a giant, steaming, shit mountain. I'm hoping the multiplayer will make up for it, which if it's anything like the previous games it will.

PS: please tell me some of the multiplayer armour variants look like the stuff from H3 and Reach, because the armour from the campaign is vomit worthy at best.

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post #12 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 04:51 PM
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Personally I don't think they will ever outdo Bungie, they have reached Bungie's level with the MP though.

Spartan Ops is a great new mode, I just really miss the original Firefight.

Campaign wise Bungie was better, the ship that gets destroyed by the missile near the end of the first mission. seems to fall apart like a metal model glued with pva glue and I get the feeling that the surroundings are far less important now.

Also, the plot wasn't to my taste, especially the ending.
And I think 343 could have done a better job at explaining what was happening, Cortana knows of the UNSC Infinity nearing Reqium even though you haven't heard anything but static from them and Cortana seems to get to name the new enemies.

It also seems like all of the original Covenant member species have joined up in pursuit of their great journey and the extinction of humanity again, though ths is not the case.

I do love the game though.

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post #13 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 06:25 PM
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While I agree with you that they could have explained some things that were explained earlier in the books, such as the rogue Covenant faction that still believes in all that insane stuff is the Covenant is fighting in 4.

However Cortana knowing all that stuff is common throughout Halo 1, 2 and 3 because she uses Chief's suit as a transmitter to hack into data networks around her. In all the Halo games she's hack the Covenant Battlenet in addition to various systems on the Halos. On Requiem its the same thing. She's hacked into it's systems. Requiem detected the Infinity and used it to track the ship. She couldn't contact it due to the Diadact's actions.

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post #14 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-13-12, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Akatsuki13 View Post
Actually I believe the canon of the games takes precedent over the expanded universe, i.e. the books. Remember the Fall of Reach came out long, long before they ever conceived of Halo Reach.

Plus I never like how the novel's depiction of Reach's fall. It was too quick for what had been billed up as the greatest military base outside of Earth.

I just check and yes the events of Halo Reach are the canon fall of Reach.
Book was out long before Halo Reach. Books canon outweighs the timeline fuckups in Halo Reach. It did not take Reach months to fall. In fact, Reach fell in a day. Remember, the Covenant brought their entire fleet to bear on that planet. As soon as the troops were sent in force, and they disabled the ground generators to the orbital Mac Cannons, Reach fell quickly afterward. The Pillar of Autumn was NOT on the ground prior to going to Halo. It was in orbit with the rest of the fleet. Cortana was never on the ground during the assualt. She was on the Pillar. Read the book. Compare the dates. You see the difference? On August 30th, 2552, Reach was attacked. On that same day, Reach was lost. The Fall of Reach was written years before Halo Reach came out. The canon of the books takes precedent over the canon of the games. Not the other way around.


Anyway, Spartan Ops is fun and all, but not something I would play with random people in matchmaking. I'd only enjoy it if I was with friends, and not getting lagged out. Multiplayer is amazing. I tend to gravitate towards big team slayer and dominion mostly. I thought Campaign was good, but to each his or her own opinion.

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post #15 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 02:22 AM
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You're missing what I'm saying. Bungie has the final say on what's canon. They created Halo Reach themselves ergo Halo Reach is the new canon, replacing it as depicted in Fall of Reach.

It's like the Star Wars universe. There's different levels of what is canon with the movies sitting at the very top of it all, above the Expanded Universe as presented in various other media. For the Halo series the games occupy that top level of canon as its being made by those with control over the license directly. Other official media, like the novels occupies the level beneath it and is canon unless it contradicts material in the top level.

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post #16 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 04:26 AM
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You're missing what I'm saying. Bungie has the final say on what's canon. They created Halo Reach themselves ergo Halo Reach is the new canon, replacing it as depicted in Fall of Reach.

It's like the Star Wars universe. There's different levels of what is canon with the movies sitting at the very top of it all, above the Expanded Universe as presented in various other media. For the Halo series the games occupy that top level of canon as its being made by those with control over the license directly. Other official media, like the novels occupies the level beneath it and is canon unless it contradicts material in the top level.
Meh. We obviously think differently on this matter. I disagree with what Bungie did. I believe they did this to piss of the fans because they didn't want to do Halo anymore. That also goes with multiplayer and the way they fucked it up. The saying goes, don't fix it if it aint broken. Multiplayer wasn't broken. They broke it. They fucked up the storyline too, and it wasn't broken. They pissed off a bunch of fans when they did this. So i don't consider that game canon. I consider the books canon, since they came out first. The game throws several bits of the canon into disarray, and therefore, fucks up a bit of the story. Books occupy a broader section of canon, and therefore, it outweighs the narrower section that games and movies take up. If someone fucks up the canon in a game or a movie that came out AFTER the books had established the canon, then most people won't look on the game as canon.

The starwars books that have come out, aside from the original Episodes 1-6, came out after the films. George Lucas made the movies based off of established canon. The books that came after as prequels or sequels were based off of established canon from the movies. The situation is different with Halo Reach and the books. Halo Reach came out AFTER the books, and was not based off of established canon. It made it's own canon, and fucked up established canon. Therefore, in terms of the overall story laid down by the books which came first, its not canon. Doesn't matter what Bungie says.

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post #17 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 05:12 AM
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You can believe that if you want but it doesn't change that Bungie has said that the games are the prime canon of the Halo universe. In any plot conflicts between The Fall of Reach and Halo Reach, the game's story supersedes the novel's even though it came out first. After all Bungie owned the Halo license not the author, they had right to decide what is canon and what isn't.

You may hate it with a passion but it doesn't change anything. The canonical Battle of Reach played out as depicted in Halo Reach the moment it came out.

However I would also like to point out that in the Fall of Reach they didn't know about the Elites and many of the other Covenant races beyond the Grunts and Jackals until around that time in the war, some that has been thoroughly changed in other Halo media. So really holding up any of those first three novels to the highest levels of canon doesn't work too well in light of all that. Certainly aspects of those novels, i.e. the origins of the Spartan-IIs, that Keyes worked with Hallsy back then, can be considered in the prime canon as they've included them into the games. But things like the fall of Reach, the UNSC's limited knowledge of many of the Covenant species until just before Reach's fall are no longer canonical.

And what's wrong with Reach's multiplayer?

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post #18 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 05:23 AM
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And what's wrong with Reach's multiplayer?
Armourlock was a little OP, but other than that I thought it was the best Halo multiplayer ever.

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post #19 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathJester921 View Post
Clear confusion.
Firstly, Halo would not exist without the games, so anything that happens in the games retcons any non-game history, backstory or novelization. Also, as Bungie created Halo, they had the ONLY say that matters and had every right to change things to make a better game.

Secondly, did it deliberately because they didn't want to do Halo? I'm trying to figure out whether this is innocent naivety or paranoid narcissism thinking that a game studio is out to get you and try their hardest to not sell copies of games.

Quote:
If someone fucks up the canon in a game or a movie that came out AFTER the books had established the canon, then most people won't look on the game as canon.
Except for the millions of people who quite rightly considered the game canon. It doesn't matter what came first, if retcons need to be made for the good of the series, pacing and reason, then they will be made. That's not to say that you can't like the book, as it's a rather well written book, but it is no longer the established and official timeline.

It's no different to changing things up between editions in 40k or DnD or ANY other material. The creative controllers have ultimate say on what happens when in their universe, and if that involves rewriting history, so be it. You are not a special snowflake who they have to take into consideration. The books are essentially promotional material for a series of games, not the other way around.

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post #20 of 71 (permalink) Old 11-14-12, 06:27 AM
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Because we all seem to have a huge timeline fuck up going on here, I am just going to give you guys this link to argue over. They seemed to have pieced it all together pretty well over there, and it actually makes sense.

Also, games outweight the books. That has been stated in the past by peps working on the games. But has anyone read the re-release version of Fall of Reach, the one that was released a year ago?

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