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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 12:20 PM
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Except it's not like that at all. The game is fully playable and completable without any addition content. It's optional, more like a conversion kit for your tactical marines.

The whining is unjustified really.

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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 12:30 PM
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Its more the quality of DLC thats bugging me. I'm a bit of a COD fan and so far i've resisted temptation to go near that elite membership well due to pressure from friends i got it (cost the same as the bloody game did!!!) and yes i'll admit the new maps are fantastic best maps seen in a COD game if im honest but for the price i'd expect more they are still fairly glitchy and seem more accomodating for little camping w*****s which is why COD is loosing so many fans for battle field.

DLC seems to me just to be a way of beating a dead horse.

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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 01:14 PM
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Look at it this way, you buy a SM tacticle squad box and inside the box is all the sprues, but the sprue with the heads is locked in a separate package in the box with a note stating to add heads to the models please pay an extra 20 dollars.

I am not aagainst DLC, there is nothing wrong with developing new additions separately for the game, but to purposfully include all of that content within the disc and lock it way to charge people later is a rip off and bad business.

OK that is kinda what I thought DLC was, more like a conversion kit like Aramoro says. It wouldn't be the heads locked away more likely some Deathwatch pauldrons. If I don't want to make Deathwatch I don't pay the money, if I do want them well then I can pay a reduced cost as they don't have to post me out a new kit.

I reckon it is saving you money and extremely good business.

I have AutoCAD as part of my business. As well you know it is a huge software package with many different facets. I don't use all those facets but AutoCAD gives me to option of buying as many or as few modules as I need and so saves me costs. I pay $9k for what I need not $20k for a heap of things I don't need.

THEY save costs by sending the same disk to everyone.

The great thing is that if I suddenly have a need for a module all I have to do is ring my supplier and they can send me a new access code via email. No new installs or anything is required.

It's a win - win.

I still can't get my head around you whining about extra inclusions in a software purchase that cost you nothing and you may never even access but could potentially save you in the long run.
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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Let me one thing straight first I am not whining I am only trying to make it aware to poeple what the company Capcom did and express that I feel this whole DLC thing is becoming abused, I see your different POVs here, but it is the principal...

Oz, your comparison with Auto Cad is a good comparison, except the creators of Auto-Cad know that businesses and companies are only going to be interested in ceratin factions of the program, which is why they operate the way they do, its for business mostly, SF X Tekken, is a video game designed for entertainment purposes only and I just feel that it is wrong to purposfully lie to your customers about content that was included within the retail disc and lock it away just so they can charge for it later. DLC was not designed to be used this way, it was designed to add to the game at later times and is to be developed separately from the initial production of the game. It is not DLC if you have it on the disc already. Your DLC in this case is just a small string of code that unlocks that content.

Look I have 3 hobbies in life Guitar, 40k, and Video Games, and lately I have been seeing some things being done in the gaming industry that is unsettling. Consumers are no longer able to purchase software for their PC or consoles and use it at their own discretion anymore, instead we are now seeing big corporations selling their product and telling you when, where, and how you are allowed to use their software. If one is to pay their hard earned money on something no one should be allowed to tell them that and if this was an issue with something that is not software related we all know it would not stand, but when it is software people seem to turn the other cheek. Look at Diablo 3 being released, here is a game that has an intial singler player campaign in it and an online function, yet one cannot use the game unless they are online all the time even when using the single player function, once again they are telling how you will use their software after you paid for it, then you have the Steam games, which yes their is an offline mode, but in order to access the offline mode you must first login online as well, if not you can't play any of these games you have either downloaded or purchased. Whats sad about it is no one seems to see it, we all just go on saying oh well I really want this game anyways. The gaming industry is abusing their customers worse than GW does, at least when you buy a model form GW they aren't standing over your shoulder telling you can't use it that way and you can't have that part.

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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 05:05 PM
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They don't lie about it, it's clear on the box how many characters you get to play and you get to play all those characters. The implementation details are irrelevant. You bought a product advertised to do a certain thing, something which it does do. You have a choice, you can say 'I want no part of you chicanery' and not purchase it or buy it and play what is a very enjoyable self contained game. Then if I want to add something to the lifetime of the game then I can purchase the DLC.

You cold do what Mortal Kombat did and include none of the DLC on the disc so it's a 2gig download and locks you into ONLY playing against people with the DLC. Or you can do what Capcom did, include the Characters on the disc so you can play against people with the DLC without purchasing it yourself. One of these is better than the other (Hint: It's not Mortal Kombat)

And you are whining about it.

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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Aramoro View Post
They don't lie about it, it's clear on the box how many characters you get to play and you get to play all those characters. The implementation details are irrelevant. You bought a product advertised to do a certain thing, something which it does do. You have a choice, you can say 'I want no part of you chicanery' and not purchase it or buy it and play what is a very enjoyable self contained game. Then if I want to add something to the lifetime of the game then I can purchase the DLC.

You cold do what Mortal Kombat did and include none of the DLC on the disc so it's a 2gig download and locks you into ONLY playing against people with the DLC. Or you can do what Capcom did, include the Characters on the disc so you can play against people with the DLC without purchasing it yourself. One of these is better than the other (Hint: It's not Mortal Kombat)

And you are whining about it.
Wow you still ignored the point of the thread, its whatever I really don't care anymore and BTW yeah MK did things thats way in the beginning, then they patched that shit up

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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSpore View Post
Look I have 3 hobbies in life Guitar, 40k, and Video Games, and lately I have been seeing some things being done in the gaming industry that is unsettling. Consumers are no longer able to purchase software for their PC or consoles and use it at their own discretion anymore, instead we are now seeing big corporations selling their product and telling you when, where, and how you are allowed to use their software.
Every piece of software you purchased for a PC always contained an End User licence agreement detailing what/where/how you can use said software. All you've ever purchased is the right to use said software, you never purchased the software itself, it's a critical distinction.

Quote:
If one is to pay their hard earned money on something no one should be allowed to tell them that and if this was an issue with something that is not software related we all know it would not stand, but when it is software people seem to turn the other cheek.
So I should be able to buy a single copy of a game, copy the CD and then hand it out like candy to anyone that want that software? I mean, I paid money for that CD, right?

Quote:
Look at Diablo 3 being released, here is a game that has an intial singler player campaign in it and an online function, yet one cannot use the game unless they are online all the time even when using the single player function, once again they are telling how you will use their software after you paid for it, then you have the Steam games, which yes their is an offline mode, but in order to access the offline mode you must first login online as well, if not you can't play any of these games you have either downloaded or purchased.
This is simply an anti piracy measure to protect game developers from having their products stolen in large amounts. It may be an inconvenience for some people but a large amount of the customer base has access to broadband internet in their homes. Companies like Steam and Activision/Blizzard (which is the largest gaming company right now) COULD NOT make the money they do with DRM like that if the majority of the customer base couldn't access the internet for extended periods of time. Given such information I find it funny that people complain about needing to be online for a game, when most of them have been online every day for the past 10 years.

Quote:
Whats sad about it is no one seems to see it, we all just go on saying oh well I really want this game anyways. The gaming industry is abusing their customers worse than GW does, at least when you buy a model form GW they aren't standing over your shoulder telling you can't use it that way and you can't have that part.
Oh, people see the "abuses" but many of us don't view them the same way you do. I don't feel "abused" because Starcraft 2 has no LAN option, nor do I feel abused that Capcom is trying to sell me "DLC" that is available on disc, as I just WON'T buy it.

I don't feel the gaming industry owes me ANYTHING. It's their product, if I don't like things about said product I just won't buy it.
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 06:16 PM
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Too much text for me to read, but I figure few, if any other people have made this point, so...

For a lot of communities there's a ton of mods, and DLC is basically a glorified mod, that you have to pay for, that, quite usually, isn't as good as whatever the community releases. Moar story for the main quest? Good DLC. Useless add-ons people could make themselves? Bad DLC.

This is before even going into the whole release date stuff. Keep in mind there may be features or stories that couldn't make it for the day they gave it off to the publishers, but could easily be refined during the days up to publishing, and released easily as DLC, as opposed to all the red-tape you have to go through for an actual release, so there should be some degree of forgiveness, depending on the DLC.

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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 10:03 PM
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Don't know that it is the quality of DLC is what is at issue, rather its existence at all and its inclusion on the base disk is seen as unfair. Still can't work out why tho'
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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-20-12, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wusword77 View Post
Every piece of software you purchased for a PC always contained an End User licence agreement detailing what/where/how you can use said software. All you've ever purchased is the right to use said software, you never purchased the software itself, it's a critical distinction.
I am not hopping in on this, I vote with my wallet and to date have never bought DLC. There are some games I would make exceptions for it they did produce DLC; however, to date, they haven't. For example, Payday: Heist.

However, that is an aside and I am only commenting on this one thing. I have always found the EULA argument specious. Looking at it purely from a contract law point of view, the company is adding clauses to a contract once the contract has been completed.

IE I agree to sell you a car for 200$ (Its a giant piece of sh*t) and you agree. You give me the money and then I give you the car. Then I tell you that a condition of the sale is that you can not drive it every second Saturday and Sunday. You would be fully and legally justified in telling me where to go and how to get there. Any artificial distinction that can be made will not change the fact that you are buying a product and additional contractual clauses being added after the fact are BS. IIRC In the cases where they have been challenged, they have been (in some, not sure if in all) declared void in domestic courts.

That said, I don't view DLC that way. DLC is legit, if not a bit abused at times. Either way, tangent finished.


Last edited by lokis222; 03-20-12 at 10:42 PM.
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