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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-11-12, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Roninman View Post
There are players which think Eve is boring, there are also players who think SWTOR is boring. You still havent gotten any substantial info why game is so great or nothing to this thread. You just brought out same number games, "this game has more players blabla" like everyone who is totally lost. Game is very popular now and i want it to succeed, but it has to carve its own gameplay elements to remain succesfull.

Atleast Doelago said truth, it is Star Wars game.
You haven't really brought anything to the argument either as the why the game is not good.

Saying the game is too much like WoW to be good, but WoW is good is not an argument. It's bad logic.

Plus you never approached Doelago's question about would WoW been as popular without being a Warcraft game?
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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-11-12, 11:46 PM
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You haven't really brought anything to the argument either as the why the game is not good.

Saying the game is too much like WoW to be good, but WoW is good is not an argument. It's bad logic.

Plus you never approached Doelago's question about would WoW been as popular without being a Warcraft game?
I think ronnin is just sour cuz the games not Niche enough for him, so hes acting out against it.

Its a fact that those who like Eve, generally will dislike anything thats not boring.

WIPS: CHECK THEM OUT!
Space wolves - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=54246
Warriors of chaos - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=60813
Dark Eldar - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=75375
DE FLUFF - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=86956
My armies.


the key to every good DE army makeup. Always have a backup plan, try to take everything in multiples, and use everything you can to your advantage, being a sneaky bastard within the rules, as it were.
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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-12-12, 02:49 AM
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I think ronnin is just sour cuz the games not Niche enough for him, so hes acting out against it.

Its a fact that those who like Eve, generally will dislike anything thats not boring.
And third time, i havent still gotten zero word from you why game is good. So maybe post it next time and say it well.

Concerning WoW - Yes i know that WoW had this same thing too when it was released. Big hype and it was made by Blizzard which i think was number thing that many people gt it within first month of it beeing released. To many players, MMO experience was totally new, i cant remember how many times i helped alot of players out when they were questing and when we talked many said it was their first MMO game and many also asked what is MMORPG. So quite many find new gaming experience that they never had before. This brought alot new players to genre which were still quite small. And Blizzard with their bigger budget brought alot of polish to this game, many earlier games were quite bug ridden.

Things i wished SWTOR should have looked from earlier games and not just WoW, main thing is that with their budget they should have done alot more and im not talking about number of instances, gameplay elements, innovations etc. So following list is games i have played with Clan and more than just freemonth period, that had some elements that could have been integrated to this game at start. And only levelbased themepark games, not sandbox. So no SWG, EVE, UO and others.

Everquest - First 3D MMORPG released. I dont think this necessarily had much elements that would fit to SWTOR. Maybe huge open wide world. It had numerous expansions, i think myself too many but it was the game that started it all and it had some great raid content.

Dark Age of Camelot - Best experience i ever had on lvl based MMO. It had great PvP endgame (not at start) and with 3 Factions. You didnt fight for gear, you fought for winning ares to your faction. I think any game which has PvP and only 2 factions will suffer because of server balance. Other faction will always dominate other because of number of players. They could have made some neutral third faction to SWTOR too. You also had gear that could be destroyed permanently, this made playercrafted material so much more valuable. One of most unique MMO game too, its expansions didnt add more lvls to players.

City of Heroes - This brought Mentoring gameplay, this helped alot ingame Clans of playing with their lower lvl buddies. Later on this option has been updated to few other games too. SWTOR should have this option, maybe patch it in later, although many things are quite easily handled by singleplayer but you could have some friends tackle lower level Flashpoints with you and actually make some experience. Also this game made so many variations how you could make your characters look that it paled all others in comparison. SWTOR has like few bodytypes and face and thats it.

Everquest 2 - Im not sure if i remember, but this was first MMORPG which brought voiceacting to quests. So SWTOR surely aint first, just polished it and made it available to every quest. EQ2 was released too close to WoW, game is quite ok actually but it surely hurt it alot. This game was at start like SWTOR, had basic classes and advanced classes once you reached certain lvl. Also EQ2 wasnt the first to include guild levels to gameplay, but handled it quite well. No Guild lvls in SWTOR.

Guild Wars - Not actually an MMORPG but CORPG according to its makers, because of its heavily instanced gameworld still could be brought to this category. This one is quite interesting though. It has maybe best arena based PvP of all this lot, you have ladders and everything and you can actually spectate matches. Also its advancement across lvl was uniqually made as was its skill selection. You could make PvP character at start which is just for PvP matches. Ladder, more different game modes on arena game, spectating etc. could have been at launch. Also its storymade runs had similarities in cinematics played during flashpoint runs in SWTOR without actual conversation options, but it had some nice variations to its instances, much more than SWTOR had.

Vanguard - Game was quite full of bugs and not complete at time of its release but it had some good elements. Classes, many options and some really unique not seen before like Blood mage and few others. Best classes still of ever MMO game as of this date. Also it brought (or was it EQ2) crafting levelling and social levelling with its own quite fun minigame into gameplay. SWTOR has its space minigame, but they could do alot more. Like casinos that have been seen in past on few others. That social Vanguard cardgame gameplay would fit quite well into SWTOR too. More varied things for people to do, not just add more flashpoints and gear. VG also had huge open world which you could truly explore and find new things, not like in SWTOR which is really quite small.

Lord of the Rings - This game had awfull character models but one of most beautiful world ever created. One thing that really was unique is playermade music. You could see sometimes even live bands playing out just for fun and some of them were so good that you madeout in seconds what they were playing. Real playerplayed music isnt something that SWTOR needs, but its just another small thing that could add something.

Age of Conan - Rather mixed bad actually. This game still has great graphics even from like 4? year old title. SWTORs isnt this special in comparison. This game had siege oriented PvP setting that was mostly Clan versus Clan. This idea was never actually worked or polished, but SWTOR could have checked onto this idea and evolve it into some Republic vs Sith clan based gameplay. Instead of Galactic war played out on Huttball arena.

Warhammer Online - As of true fan of Warhammer many jumped into this game but quite many find about its problems. Endgame PvP was quite nice idea actually but never actually worked like it did in DAOC. Also add to this sluggish animation of characters and rather unresponsive combat sometimes. Many old DAOC players screamed when they saw this game devided into 2 factions, all of them pointed out that only more numerous faction could dominate playfield. Add to this, that you didnt gain any substantial rewards of actually defending against playermade siege, only winning bought heft rewards. Didnt even see siege engines on DAOC level or players who could climb walls against against castles. I would have loved that SWTOR would have taken looked into this and made their polished version out of this.

World of Warcraft - Not much to say as everyone maybe knows about this, but Blizzard didnt actually invent almost nothing. They polished and streamlined many (some said too many) things what we saw before this Juggernaut coming out. Now this game is has been tried numerous tries to be copied along years, but i think SWTOR is closest that have been made so far, and most succesfull one if you take a look at numbers behind pre-orders. But i dont think its very good idea to try tackle this monster which copied all of its elements from earlier game with another game which try to copy WoW and at same time deviate from it and with this budget behind it. Seems they were never willing to take any risks, just look at Rift. Its also very close to WoW and hailed as among best of themepark games but that still wasnt enough.

What SWTOR needs is more variation, which isnt acceptable when look at all money they had behind this game. If this game would have comeout from smaller gamestudio this could have been forgiven but out of studio this big cannot.
Some things:
- Character creation should be expanded alot, now you have skinny, normal, bodybuilder and some overweight body options. Face options are more varied but there is no /hood command that i have seen yet. Also SW universe has so many races that even if they would have not spoken direct english i still think it was bad idea to left them out.
- World needs to be expanded. Lack of same level areas that you can quest isnt very much. If you make alt character you still run through almost same areas and some of them are really gamedriven, there isnt much to go unless there is next questhub to go. Many worlds at start have been like walking in Canyons and not much place to go to and explore. Also world seems to be very static, mobs seem to be rooted to ground on many worlds.
- Levelling is slightly better handled than on previous games, you can do flashpoints and space combat and even PvP so you can advance without doing 100s of sidequests and with this you can actually skip some planets content almost totally. Still would like to see more and i would guess they will patch this in at some point. Hope its not only additional lvls. Game also need more things to do past lvl 20. Game is still too much go to this, kill this, collect this done hundred times.
- Crafting is very mixed back, harvesting with companions is quite nicely handled aswell as crafting but this still is same old crafting formula that we have seen before. Any things you craft out before max lvls is within day or 2 old and better equipment is available during drops and Flashpoints. And at max lvl there really isnt many usable things to craft. More than enough of my guildmates have already confirmed this. You seem to get always better on easier handled instances.
- Space combat is quite ok minigame run few times but gets rather old if you do same things daily. Game needs atleast twice amount of content to Space combat or another totally another minigameplay option. Too rail drived and gets old after few times but still run it for easy exp.
- Voice acting was maybe main thing that SWTOR was hyped for. Yes it works quite well but thing is that it gets rather old on sidequests without no meaning. This is good element brought to this but it isnt something that was truly needed.
- Playermade Houses/Starships should be made for Guilds. Many earlier games had this but not this. It isnt in anyway something that adds more gameplay but is some basic thing which is missing. Also Guild levels miss too.
- PvP during beta i already said that this is not something that is good. Characted responsiveness (there is huge thread on SWTOR forums about this), ranged vs melee balance, Huttball and some its variations are not so much. Add some game options maybe to endgame that will feel more about true Sith vs Republic gameplay and im not talking about some Alterac valley 40-man which we saw at WoW. But something that makes you feel more like this is PvP for something for your side and not your for next set of orange underpants.
- Vehicles/Mounts Where are mounts? I havent seen any so far, SWG had numerous options of mounts and in SW films we have seen many use them.
- Wor

i could add some more but gotta continue if needed another day. Ive said this before and i will say it again. You only seem to read between lines that SWTOR is really bad when i have said its slightly above average. Main thing is money they had behind this game and they had it alot, should have been added to bring more "life" to this game, more variations to different things player can do while levelling, some things that were just simple overlooked (if it didnt work in WOW it wont work in ours).

They played it safe, what you got was slightly above average MMO with bigger budget that was unheard of without making any risks. Where is innovation?
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-12-12, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Roninman View Post

What SWTOR needs is more variation, which isnt acceptable when look at all money they had behind this game. If this game would have comeout from smaller gamestudio this could have been forgiven but out of studio this big cannot.
Some things:
- Character creation should be expanded alot, now you have skinny, normal, bodybuilder and some overweight body options. Face options are more varied but there is no /hood command that i have seen yet. Also SW universe has so many races that even if they would have not spoken direct english i still think it was bad idea to left them out.

the non basic speaking Races exist, and are in the game, they decided that PC's will speak basic, for VO simplicity. this wont change and was a good choice.

- World needs to be expanded. Lack of same level areas that you can quest isnt very much. If you make alt character you still run through almost same areas and some of them are really gamedriven, there isnt much to go unless there is next questhub to go. Many worlds at start have been like walking in Canyons and not much place to go to and explore. Also world seems to be very static, mobs seem to be rooted to ground on many worlds.

the worlds will probably be expanded on in EXPANSIONS, currently the worlds are designed to not have a ton of wasted space, which was a good decision on their part. as for mobs being rooted, its enevitable that some will remain rooted in place purely due to the design of the game, if every mob was patrolling, you would end up with MUCH larger pulls then if not.

- Levelling is slightly better handled than on previous games, you can do flashpoints and space combat and even PvP so you can advance without doing 100s of sidequests and with this you can actually skip some planets content almost totally. Still would like to see more and i would guess they will patch this in at some point. Hope its not only additional lvls. Game also need more things to do past lvl 20. Game is still too much go to this, kill this, collect this done hundred times.

you should really learn what RPGs are, theres not going to be a massive change in how the game plays after 20, there isnt in WoW, there isnt in WAR, or AOC, or CoH/V, etc etc. the list goes on. if you dont think this game has enough content in it, your blind

- Crafting is very mixed back, harvesting with companions is quite nicely handled aswell as crafting but this still is same old crafting formula that we have seen before. Any things you craft out before max lvls is within day or 2 old and better equipment is available during drops and Flashpoints. And at max lvl there really isnt many usable things to craft. More than enough of my guildmates have already confirmed this. You seem to get always better on easier handled instances.
- Space combat is quite ok minigame run few times but gets rather old if you do same things daily. Game needs atleast twice amount of content to Space combat or another totally another minigameplay option. Too rail drived and gets old after few times but still run it for easy exp.

your going to complain about a minigame they added as a kind of break from the norm combat? really? they could have not put it in at all, but they chose to put it in.

- Voice acting was maybe main thing that SWTOR was hyped for. Yes it works quite well but thing is that it gets rather old on sidequests without no meaning. This is good element brought to this but it isnt something that was truly needed.

its obvious you care nothing about story or meaning behind the game, and this part of your post only further proves that.

- Playermade Houses/Starships should be made for Guilds. Many earlier games had this but not this. It isnt in anyway something that adds more gameplay but is some basic thing which is missing. Also Guild levels miss too.

Thats on their wall of things to do. they need to work out other parts of the game before they add in frills like this one.

- PvP during beta i already said that this is not something that is good. Characted responsiveness (there is huge thread on SWTOR forums about this), ranged vs melee balance, Huttball and some its variations are not so much. Add some game options maybe to endgame that will feel more about true Sith vs Republic gameplay and im not talking about some Alterac valley 40-man which we saw at WoW. But something that makes you feel more like this is PvP for something for your side and not your for next set of orange underpants.
- Vehicles/Mounts Where are mounts? I havent seen any so far, SWG had numerous options of mounts and in SW films we have seen many use them.

you are blind, I see plenty of mounts, you get them starting at 25 and theres not a million different colour variations, but there is plenty of different shapes for the types of mounts in the game.

- Wor

see the lime.

you obviously dont like this game, so your blind to all the joys it does have, all because you would rather sit on auto farm for a month before being able to participate in anything worth while.

WIPS: CHECK THEM OUT!
Space wolves - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=54246
Warriors of chaos - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=60813
Dark Eldar - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=75375
DE FLUFF - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=86956
My armies.


the key to every good DE army makeup. Always have a backup plan, try to take everything in multiples, and use everything you can to your advantage, being a sneaky bastard within the rules, as it were.
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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-12-12, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Roninman View Post
What SWTOR needs is more variation, which isnt acceptable when look at all money they had behind this game. If this game would have comeout from smaller gamestudio this could have been forgiven but out of studio this big cannot.
Some things:
- Character creation should be expanded alot, now you have skinny, normal, bodybuilder and some overweight body options. Face options are more varied but there is no /hood command that i have seen yet. Also SW universe has so many races that even if they would have not spoken direct english i still think it was bad idea to left them out.


the non basic speaking Races exist, and are in the game, they decided that PC's will speak basic, for VO simplicity. this wont change and was a good choice.

Nope more races adds more variations, there are alot which speaks english which would have added more choices and you didnt say nothing about bodytypes. Sounds perfect for you

- World needs to be expanded. Lack of same level areas that you can quest isnt very much. If you make alt character you still run through almost same areas and some of them are really gamedriven, there isnt much to go unless there is next questhub to go. Many worlds at start have been like walking in Canyons and not much place to go to and explore. Also world seems to be very static, mobs seem to be rooted to ground on many worlds.

the worlds will probably be expanded on in EXPANSIONS, currently the worlds are designed to not have a ton of wasted space, which was a good decision on their part. as for mobs being rooted, its enevitable that some will remain rooted in place purely due to the design of the game, if every mob was patrolling, you would end up with MUCH larger pulls then if not.

Very tightly controlled does make worlds small. MMOs are also part of exploration but maybe you like it small. You like the game to guide you by hand of where to go? This has been brought up at SWTOR forums aswell, you can check 4 youtube videos which were made as example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Rrk6lgi24


- Levelling is slightly better handled than on previous games, you can do flashpoints and space combat and even PvP so you can advance without doing 100s of sidequests and with this you can actually skip some planets content almost totally. Still would like to see more and i would guess they will patch this in at some point. Hope its not only additional lvls. Game also need more things to do past lvl 20. Game is still too much go to this, kill this, collect this done hundred times.

you should really learn what RPGs are, theres not going to be a massive change in how the game plays after 20, there isnt in WoW, there isnt in WAR, or AOC, or CoH/V, etc etc. the list goes on. if you dont think this game has enough content in it, your blind

You should also maybe learn what RPGs are, they are not only about level based progression, maybe you are defending game too much that it sounds like you are part of dev team. And i said im quite ok with this, talk about blind.

- Crafting is very mixed back, harvesting with companions is quite nicely handled aswell as crafting but this still is same old crafting formula that we have seen before. Any things you craft out before max lvls is within day or 2 old and better equipment is available during drops and Flashpoints. And at max lvl there really isnt many usable things to craft. More than enough of my guildmates have already confirmed this. You seem to get always better on easier handled instances.
- Space combat is quite ok minigame run few times but gets rather old if you do same things daily. Game needs atleast twice amount of content to Space combat or another totally another minigameplay option. Too rail drived and gets old after few times but still run it for easy exp.

your going to complain about a minigame they added as a kind of break from the norm combat? really? they could have not put it in at all, but they chose to put it in.

Minigame that could have been much more with their production money. Of course i complain as do many others. Still defending it alot and not even saying "i would have liked more too" Maybe few more during every 10 lvls would have added more variation.


- Voice acting was maybe main thing that SWTOR was hyped for. Yes it works quite well but thing is that it gets rather old on sidequests without no meaning. This is good element brought to this but it isnt something that was truly needed.

its obvious you care nothing about story or meaning behind the game, and this part of your post only further proves that.

Its obvious you dont care much about MMO side of game. If your singleplayer storyarch is main thing you play this. Your MMO experience isnt quite much and it shows. Stories are always good but this was about much hyped voice acted story. Read

- Playermade Houses/Starships should be made for Guilds. Many earlier games had this but not this. It isnt in anyway something that adds more gameplay but is some basic thing which is missing. Also Guild levels miss too.

Thats on their wall of things to do. they need to work out other parts of the game before they add in frills like this one.

Yes i agree many more more important things to do

- PvP during beta i already said that this is not something that is good. Characted responsiveness (there is huge thread on SWTOR forums about this), ranged vs melee balance, Huttball and some its variations are not so much. Add some game options maybe to endgame that will feel more about true Sith vs Republic gameplay and im not talking about some Alterac valley 40-man which we saw at WoW. But something that makes you feel more like this is PvP for something for your side and not your for next set of orange underpants.
- Vehicles/Mounts Where are mounts? I havent seen any so far, SWG had numerous options of mounts and in SW films we have seen many use them.

you are blind, I see plenty of mounts, you get them starting at 25 and theres not a million different colour variations, but there is plenty of different shapes for the types of mounts in the game.

I said vehicles/mounts which meant vehicles and rideable animals. Should have been more clear.

- Wor
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhainiteAssassin View Post
see the lime.

you obviously dont like this game, so your blind to all the joys it does have, all because you would rather sit on auto farm for a month before being able to participate in anything worth while.
If you didnt read my post full, it mostly said that production of this magnitude, biggest in MMO history so far played it too safe without adding too much they made themselves. And you have not so far said in any longer post what makes this game so great and fun for you. There are people who still havent bought this game and quite possibly read this thread and they would like to hear opinions on both sides. And you havent said not a single word of this games aspects everything must be so great and works as intented. You can say atleast something between defending it so much. Nothing worse as people who so blindly defend game and cant say even minor simple things that could have been better. So whats your MMO history? You also quoted just to some things you could defend so much, you can speak, this game isnt 10.

I said it 2 times im not hating the game, im just disappointed what they came with. So stop dodging my question and tell it to others what makes this game so great to you? It cant be SW thing only or can it?

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I think ronnin is just sour cuz the games not Niche enough for him, so hes acting out against it.

Its a fact that those who like Eve, generally will dislike anything thats not boring.
This is the voice of someone who has never played Eve. For Eve is the one game that I have had the most heart pounding, edge of the seat gaming interactions. In terms of a massively multiplayer game it is truer to the term than any other game really and that is why it's fun. For basement dwellers who are uncomfortable or unable to interact with other humans properly I can see why SW:TOR has an appeal.

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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-12-12, 02:30 PM
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This is the voice of someone who has never played Eve. For Eve is the one game that I have had the most heart pounding, edge of the seat gaming interactions. In terms of a massively multiplayer game it is truer to the term than any other game really and that is why it's fun. For basement dwellers who are uncomfortable or unable to interact with other humans properly I can see why SW:TOR has an appeal.
thats golden, Aramoro, thats golden. I played EVE for a month, in a guild of friends, I tried to group every chance I got. for a whole month, I was literally sitting there bored out of my mind cuz I was useless in the 'pvp' and the pve in that game is auto play. a game that takes a whole month to get fun isnt worth the time to play. Atleast WoW, SWTOR, Everquest, DAOC all had their charms in their early games. had the fun aspects to it. EVE has nothing for it until you can reach a point where your competitive.

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Dark Eldar - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=75375
DE FLUFF - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=86956
My armies.


the key to every good DE army makeup. Always have a backup plan, try to take everything in multiples, and use everything you can to your advantage, being a sneaky bastard within the rules, as it were.
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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-12-12, 02:41 PM
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That's not entirely true. You can do Faction Warfare, join EvE university etc to learn basics etc. EvE is much more about player's experience than skill points. But, yes, it does not grant instant gratification not it does cater to everyone's tastes. But, still, it grants most possibilities to players and it's only really player driven game, you just have to find your place in it. It's ok not to like it, but don't write things that aren't true, cause, to quote you:you obviously dont like this game, so your blind to all the joys it does have.

I don't know why I wrote this, we had same discussion as you and Roninman few months ago and it was as pointless as this one.
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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-12-12, 03:16 PM
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Delivered many newspapers today?
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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-12-12, 03:35 PM
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Delivered many newspapers today?
tons thanks.

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Space wolves - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=54246
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Dark Eldar - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=75375
DE FLUFF - http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...ad.php?t=86956
My armies.


the key to every good DE army makeup. Always have a backup plan, try to take everything in multiples, and use everything you can to your advantage, being a sneaky bastard within the rules, as it were.
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