Originally Posted by MetalHandkerchief
Minigames are not PvP... Once that little confusion is out of the way, maybe it's possible to have a real look at what is likely and what is not.
So players fighting players =/= PvP? I was quite sure that PvP stood for Player vs Player. Can you explain then what PvP means?
Arenas, warfronts/ battlegrounds and duels are all "gamey" shit that no strategic PvP minded player is even slightly interested in.
OK, now I get it. You don't consider any form of PvP beyond RvR world PvP to actually be PvP. You've taken a very narrow definition of what PvP actually is that seems to stem from the fact that you prefer
RvR style of combat as opposed to the "gamey" types of PvP.
This is where the problem with 2 factions come in. For a game based on the Warhammer or Warhammer 40K license to work (like WAR almost did) you have to have persistent PvP (or RvR) - a shifting battlefield that players must adapt to to succeed with their faction. When you only have 2 factions, inevitably one side will end up with most of the players on the server and completely dominate the control points/forts/battlefield/whatever. In a 3 faction system this problem hardly exists because the two less populated sides can gang up on the one that is growing too big. This kind of PvP is dynamic, challenging and interesting but will not work with 2 factions.
I think what you mean to say is:
"For a game based on the Warhammer or Warhammer 40K license to be true to the IP and work
(like WAR almost did) you have to have persistent PvP (or RvR) - a shifting battlefield that players must adapt to to succeed with their faction."
And I agree with that. IF
DMO is to be a RvR focused game it should have 3 factions (minimum) otherwise it will just go the way Warhammer Online.
Comparatively, minigames like battlegrounds are mindnumbing activities invented to waste time. Sure, teamwork is present and needed, but there is no variety, no shifting strategy to adjust to, no life. Just run out, kill, respawn. And then? One side wins and nothing happens. The instance is deleted and what you just did had no impact on anything at all, except your character's pathetic little xp and/or renown bar and your own lifetime, of which you just threw 10 minutes of into a black hole on some server for an experience you will repeat a thousand times like the sad little hamster-on-a-wheel you are.
Even in RvR style games the "persistent" world would eventually reset back to some type of default. Otherwise once one faction gains momentum they would never lose it.
And, seriously, don't try to make it sound like RvR style of combat is somehow so much deeper then any of the "gamey" types of PvP. RvR is simply a world type of Capture the Point (or Arthai Basin to all the WoW players out there). You will still be repeating the same thing week in and week out. Your faction will push for a point, you may take it or be pushed back. The other faction will push and you may or may not be successful in defending. That's it.
It's basically this:
An amalgam of semi-realistic warfare vs. a little game of rinse-and-reapeat with a skinner's box reward
No it's more like this:
Fighting players in the general game world while trying to capture points, all the while telling yourself your not doing any type of "gamey" PvP or a big game of rinse-and-reapeat vs. doing a little game of rinse-and-reapeat that is based around the "gamey" ideas of PvP.
You seem to think 40k would work as a PvE focused game, and good for you have fun with that. I disagree with you and I am sure many others disagree with you. There is also no evidence that this is a PvE focused game as you seem to believe. The feel of the universe suggest it is a PvP game.
That's great that the "feel" of the universe would point towards a 40K themed DAoC (which also had a good amount of PVE content) but I'm still asking for evidence of DMO actually being a PVP focused game. No one has yet to provide such evidence. Therefore I don't feel bad assuming that the game will be PvE, just like you guys assume the game will be PvP.
The fact is there are problems with a two sided PvP game if you need proof of this please look up the other PvP games that have come and gone in the last 15 years.
That is all dependent on the extent of PVP in the game. In a RvR type of game, like DAoC, you need 3 factions to prevent overpopulation of one faction. In a non RvR type of game, like WoW, it doesn't matter how many factions you have, as the PvP happens in population controlled instanced zones.
Also WoW is not a PvP game..
I never claimed WoW was a PvP focused game. I simply stated that WoW has PvP with only 2 available player factions.
BTW I'm still waiting for someone to link me information where a developer states that DMO will be a PvP focused game.