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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-27-15, 07:01 PM
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I thought the film was an irredeemable pile of garbage that went faaaar past the point of homage, instead just remaking the original trilogy squashed into one film with worse acting, no originality and plot holes you could fly a Super Star Destroyer through.

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-28-15, 01:43 AM
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For me it was the number of plot holes in the film. For example, why did Finn decide to defect? I get that he was traumatized by the death of his friend and by being ordered to kill unarmed civilians, but all the sudden he's like, "hey Poe, I'm here to rescue you." What? All of the sudden he's willing to risk all and get off that ship, and it felt like I missed something. If I would have been given something more here, I think the whole thing would have been much more believable for me. For example, I get why Finn and Rey left Jakku. That part made perfect sense to me, and was a good example of creative well thought out story telling.
Storm troopers originally were fanatically loyal to the empire. They were fed propaganda about invincibility of the empire and dying for the cause. Keep in mind that it took twenty years for a rebellion to strike a blow against the empire mainly the death star. Then within another handful of years Another deathstar vader, the emperor, and a super star destroyer were destroyed.

Assuming the propaganda machine is still working over time they probably tried to spin those events into some sort of sacrifice on the empires part. But for the right people the damage would already have been done. The mighty empire isn't invincible.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-30-15, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
In the flashback that Rey experienced when she touched the light saber, did anyone else think the first of the attackers killed by Luke had the same profile? It would be interesting if they tied in to the series, even if there's about 35 years between them in the timeline.
For some reason I can’t remember the scene you’re talking about. I remember Rey’s vision of herself as a little girl, and the person holding onto her, but (in my recollection) that individual wasn’t shown. I also don't remember Luke killing anyone. I do remember the knights of Ren standing amidst a bunch of corpses lying on the ground, and the now classic scene of Luke putting his robotic hand on R2D2, but that's it. The next time we see Luke (again, in my recollection) is when Luke and Rey are standing near each other in the last scene of the film. I guess I’ll have to see the film again to see what you're talking about.



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Originally Posted by bitsandkits View Post
han solo will return in ep8, kathlean kennedy confirmed it the other day
I have a feeling it’s to film flashback scenes, and not as a main character. As we learned in episode 7 with Mark Hamill, being cast in the film doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll play a large role in the film.


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i loved it, need to go see it a second time, personally i think JJ and Kasdan have got everything right. if i could find fault it was that it was too short, i think it needed a bit longer to really flesh some things out
I agree. It’s also possible they needed to cut parts of the film to trim the length down. We might find when the extended edition gets released, that Abrams and Kasdan indeed fleshed out many of the questions people have, but we just didn’t get to see them.


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but by the same token im glad i dont know everything yet, giving skywalker the last scene with no dialogue was genius.
True, I’m glad there are things to look forward to in future films (i.e. who Rey’s family is, who Snoke is, etc.).


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Originally Posted by bitsandkits View Post
i think Kylo rens powers seeming a little random was done on purpose to show his struggle with the dark and the light side and possibly the force awakening in others, think about it, if non force users suddenly find they have skills what happens to those who already had developed some?
I’m not sure I understand here. Are you saying that the force awakening (for example as it did in Rey), also caused an “awakening” of the light side in Kylo Ren (i.e. he hears it calling to him in a similar way as Rey hears it calling to her)? Are you then also saying this calling diminished Kylo Ren’s ability to control or wield the dark (i.e. why he appeared weaker)?


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i loved the idea of star killer base, sucking a sun from existance and then spitting out death on an entire system, okay its another "death star" but by god its really exeeding its brief,
Overall I liked it too. Go big or go home, and they certainly chose to go big. My excitement was certainly tempered though by Kasadan writing the same basic plot we’ve seen twice before with the Death Star 1 and 2.


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i have seen some critics panning it over the similarities but we loved the originals and lets be fair , the originals borrowed heavily from other stories/movies/books, people didnt like the prequels because they were not star wars enough, but when you give people a squel with some borrowed elements from star wars people also find fault? disney couldnt really win(A bit like GW lol)
I liked a lot of the connections, but in other ways, they seemed a bit much… for example: Jakku is Tatooine, Rey is Luke, Finn is Han, Luke is Obi-wan Kanobi, BB-8 is R2D2, Kylo Ren is Darth Vader, Snoke is Palpatine, Hux is Tarkin, Starkiller is the Death Star, the First Order is the Empire, the Resistance is the Rebellion, and the desperate last ditch assault on a spherical super weapon with a critical flaw by outnumbered starfighters is, well, a desperate last ditch assault on a spherical super weapon with a critical flaw by outnumbered starfighters.

I will say this though, I’m excited by where they left off in Episode 7, and where Episode 8 will be going in the future. Overall I’d give the film an 8.5 out of 10. Episode 5 is still my favorite, but 7 could easily be my second. I think I’d rate them like this…

1- Episode 5
2- Episode 7
3- Episode 3
4- Episode 6
5- Episode 4

6- Episode 2
7- Episode 1

There’s a sizable gap in between Episode 4 and 2. Essentially, all I care to see in the Phantom Menace and Clone Wars, are Darth Maul & when Yoda fights Count Dooku…



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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
I thought the film was an irredeemable pile of garbage that went faaaar past the point of homage, instead just remaking the original trilogy squashed into one film with worse acting, no originality and plot holes you could fly a Super Star Destroyer through.
Lol, tell me how you really feel. I get your points though about copying the original blueprint, and the number of plot holes in the film, however I didn’t think the acting was worse. For me it was (for the most part) on par with Episodes 4-6. Leia was a little flat, Phasma was a wasted character, and Hux was no Tarkin, but other than that... I thought it was pretty good. After being subjected to the horrific acting in Episodes 1-3, I thought Episode 7 was terrific.



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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Storm troopers originally were fanatically loyal to the empire. They were fed propaganda about invincibility of the empire and dying for the cause. Keep in mind that it took twenty years for a rebellion to strike a blow against the empire mainly the death star. Then within another handful of years Another deathstar vader, the emperor, and a super star destroyer were destroyed.

Assuming the propaganda machine is still working over time they probably tried to spin those events into some sort of sacrifice on the empires part. But for the right people the damage would already have been done. The mighty empire isn't invincible.
I get what you’re saying, but it still doesn’t explain why Finn freaked out. There was a good number of other stormtroopers on that ground mission who didn’t freak out. Why Finn?

Later in the film we find out he worked in sanitation (not sure why you need stormtrooper armor to work in sanitation, but that’s a question for another thread). So I guess one could say he wasn’t used to combat, and therefore freaked out when confronted with death/being ordered to fire on unarmed innocents. However, if that was the case, why was he even on that mission in the first place? Did a number of combat oriented stormtroopers call in sick that day? Was the First Order so hard up for manpower they had to press a sanitation guy into combat? I mean I just don’t get it…
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-30-15, 09:19 PM
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with worse acting, .
Well...the acting was never superb.

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-31-15, 03:10 PM
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Han got kebabed through the chest with a glowstick, then keeled over off a walkway into a fucking enormous chasm. Finn, Rey & Chewie have a bit of a fight, grab the Falcon and get the hell out of Dodge. Starkiller Base explodes.

Finn is carted away by the Medics. Chewie is sat on his own in a miserable pile of fur. If that was Han being carried off, Chewie would have been right alongside him from landing at base to full recovery.

Han is dead. He's been my favourite character since forever, but Han is well and truly brown bread.


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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-31-15, 09:53 PM
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-02-16, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tawa View Post
Han got kebabed through the chest with a glowstick, then keeled over off a walkway into a @#!*% enormous chasm. Finn, Rey & Chewie have a bit of a fight, grab the Falcon and get the @#!*% out of Dodge. Starkiller Base explodes.

Finn is carted away by the Medics. Chewie is sat on his own in a miserable pile of fur. If that was Han being carried off, Chewie would have been right alongside him from landing at base to full recovery.

Han is dead. He's been my favourite character since forever, but Han is well and truly brown bread.
I agree. I think Abrams gave Ford what he'd wanted for years, an heroic death for Han Solo. He willingly risks his life in an attempt to turn his son back to the light side. Even though he fails to turn him, he loves his son to the very end.

Han was the primary old character in Episode 7, I think 8 will deal with Luke and finding a way to phase him out. Not sure what they'll do with Leia. Chewy, C-3PO, and R2 D2 could all be played by someone else well into the future. C-3PO's voice would have to be worked out should Anthony Daniels quit or die (he's 70 in February), but I'm sure Disney could find a quality voice impressionists to replace him. It just makes no sense to keep the old characters involved and for them to bring Han back.

I think this trilogy is all about handing the baton to the next generation.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-02-16, 12:42 PM
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I agree. I think Abrams gave Ford what he'd wanted for years, an heroic death for Han Solo. He willingly risks his life in an attempt to turn his son back to the light side. Even though he fails to turn him, he loves his son to the very end.
I'd say it's more of a tragic death than a heroic one, but I get what you're saying about Ford. If all had gone to plan, I imagine Han would have fallen at some point during the battle for Endor.


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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-02-16, 01:15 PM
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I feel like there will be a lot of added content when the DVD is released. LotR was a similar movie event and had hours and hours of added stuff, with how epic of a movie shoot this likely was (and let's face it, the sheer amount of consumer dollars that follow this franchise) there's bound to be stuff cut from the feature film that will be added back in for the at-home viewer. Heck, maybe it will even help explain a character trait here or there. Seems like we should have known a bit more about some of the people in this movie and it really wouldn't have taken much explanation.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-12-16, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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I'd say it's more of a tragic death than a heroic one, but I get what you're saying about Ford. If all had gone to plan, I imagine Han would have fallen at some point during the battle for Endor.
I would have liked Hanís death to be more of a traditional heroic type, but Iím ok with how Kasdan & Abrams did it. It was good to see Han Solo on the big screen again so Iím kind of glad they didnít kill him off at Endor. However, I get that they canít keep the original characters around forever. Eventually theyíve got to die. Iím just glad it wasnít a dumb death.


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I feel like there will be a lot of added content when the DVD is released. LotR was a similar movie event and had hours and hours of added stuff, with how epic of a movie shoot this likely was (and let's face it, the sheer amount of consumer dollars that follow this franchise) there's bound to be stuff cut from the feature film that will be added back in for the at-home viewer. Heck, maybe it will even help explain a character trait here or there. Seems like we should have known a bit more about some of the people in this movie and it really wouldn't have taken much explanation.
I agree. The Star Wars franchise is especially adept at getting us to buy the same movie over and over again. I have no doubt thereíll be the original DVD release, the Blue Ray special edition release, the directors cut special edition release, the 3D special edition release with collectible Star Wars 3D glasses, the special anniversary re-release edition with missing footage and alternate ending, the super special 9 volume tri-trilogy set with collectible Millennium Falcon miniature, extra playable Battlefront 2020 content, and a chance to win an all expense paid for two to Disney World, etc.

Sarcasm aside, I bet youíre right, thereís probably more than a few scenes coming our way which might explain a plot hole or two.
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