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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-08-12, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Default Alien 3.

Alien 3, hit with massive set backs and budget cuts, removed footage, storyline changes before, during and even after filming and a studio/director disagreement.

I didn't like the movie when I first saw it but it grew on me very quickly due to the way it was shot and styled...


... and today, I have just sat and discovered the movie all over again...


... I finally got my hands on a copy of the Definitive Edition, containing the original footage and storyline, Fincher's original masterpiece without being cut to shreds by dumbass studio execs.

All I have to say is: WHAT A FILM!! GET YOUR HANDS ON A COPY IF YOU CAN!!

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-08-12, 03:55 PM
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I fully agree did not like it at all when it first came out until I saw the original version when I got the alien boxset, completely different movie, the whole feel of it and the story line are excellent, highly recommend it along with the directors cuts of both Alien and Aliens!!!
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-16-12, 06:40 AM
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The only thing that bugged me about this was the early script, essentially rendering the survival of Hicks and Newt in the previous film utterly pointless.

A very lazy way to approach it as far as I'm concerned. Beyond that, yes the fim itself was quite well done and I did enjoy it very much.



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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-16-12, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Apparently when Michael Biehn found out he was written out of the story he was well pissed.
Then they asked if they could use his likeness for a mock-up dummy with a chestburster in it.

He told them to piss off then allowed the digital picture of his likeness to be used, but it would cost them the same amount of cash that he was paid for the entire Aliens film just for one single shot. Nice one Mike!

Apparently Newt was written out because in real life, Carrie Henn had aged too much.

The first original storyline had Ripley and Newt getting killed in an EEV crash and Hicks ended up on a man-made wooden planet full of monks. No wonder they changed it, sounds crap.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-16-12, 08:54 AM
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I like the earlier William Gibson script, one of the early ones where Ripley wouldn't be in it and Hicks and Bishop would spend the movie kicking alien arse. Model Soldier, the one you refer to is a later draft I think. You can read the Gibson script online though. It was cool but very cold warish, and the Berlin wall fell just after he finished writing it.

The final script was a weird conglomeration fo ideas from earlier drafts, i agree the definitive edition is better (despite soem really bad sound) but I still don;t love it. Also, the Alien never looked good in Alien 3 for me, too CGI - though i think that is due to the compositing of it onto the frames. It looks so much better int he shots where they use a model, like the one where it comes close to Ripley's face. I think in general the models in Alien and Aliens look fab compared to CGI though.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-16-12, 09:12 AM
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The alien in the third movie was meant to be smaller. I doubt a costume would have been easy for them like they used in the other movies. Notice that when they did use the model, half of the creature was off screen.



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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-16-12, 09:22 AM
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Yep I know, but I think a smaller alien was a mistake if it looked so much worse.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-16-12, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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One problem they had with the CGI Alien is as you said: putting it on film. Alien 3 was one of the last (if not the last) mainstream photofilm movie made.
After that, everyone went digital, which is extremely easy to put full CG creatures and effects on. Hence within a year, Jurassic Park was released.
Alien 3 even used matt-painters for some of the sets. After the transition to digifilm, they all went green-screen.

The other thing with the 'man in suit' and making the Alien smaller problem was, the Alien came from a dog/ox (depending on what version you watch) and it took on the characteristics of the creature it came from, so they couldn't have a suit all the time, only on certain shots. They tried stop motion and, for long shots they even tried sticking an Alien suit on a small dog and it looked even worse.


As for CGI in general, I hate it when it's done badly but, saying that, Ghostbusters has terrible CGI, many people think it was a style choice but it was actually lack of computing power, no experience with CG, photofilm being cack for adding CG shots and a low budget and yet Ghostbusters is a brilliant movie due to writing, style, storyline etc.

If you can see past the dodgy Alien effects, the bad history the film had when being made and look at it for what it really is, I think it's worthy of it's place in the Alien Universe. Especially if you're using the Definitive Edition as the version you prefer.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-16-12, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model Soldier View Post
One problem they had with the CGI Alien is as you said: putting it on film. Alien 3 was one of the last (if not the last) mainstream photofilm movie made.
After that, everyone went digital, which is extremely easy to put full CG creatures and effects on. Hence within a year, Jurassic Park was released.
Alien 3 even used matt-painters for some of the sets. After the transition to digifilm, they all went green-screen.

The other thing with the 'man in suit' and making the Alien smaller problem was, the Alien came from a dog/ox (depending on what version you watch) and it took on the characteristics of the creature it came from, so they couldn't have a suit all the time, only on certain shots. They tried stop motion and, for long shots they even tried sticking an Alien suit on a small dog and it looked even worse.


As for CGI in general, I hate it when it's done badly but, saying that, Ghostbusters has terrible CGI, many people think it was a style choice but it was actually lack of computing power, no experience with CG, photofilm being cack for adding CG shots and a low budget and yet Ghostbusters is a brilliant movie due to writing, style, storyline etc.

If you can see past the dodgy Alien effects, the bad history the film had when being made and look at it for what it really is, I think it's worthy of it's place in the Alien Universe. Especially if you're using the Definitive Edition as the version you prefer.
This and this again. I can do this, like I said I only had one gripe with the plot but that wasn't enough to spoil it for me.



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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-16-12, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model Soldier View Post
If you can see past the dodgy Alien effects, the bad history the film had when being made and look at it for what it really is, I think it's worthy of it's place in the Alien Universe. Especially if you're using the Definitive Edition as the version you prefer.
Interesting points! On the above, yes I agree it is not a bad film, not Alien/Aliens but that is a high bar to meet. Certainly better than AVP/AVP2!!

On the transition to digi point, again interesting. I think in a way if they couldn't pull it off technically they should have just made it a regular size alien, I am not sure it added much to have it smaller really. Better to work within your limitations. The end result as it stands is an interesting story, but visually ti is less impressive monster-wise than Aliens. I get the impression Aliens was oen fo the last model-based, almost no CGI big films, and I love it for that. My fave bit of the alien box set is the Aliens extras disks, as the mini documentary on effects is fab. I particularly love the miniature of the alien hive when they first go to the power plant - it looks better than anything in the star wars prequels for instance!
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