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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-10, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Kholek Suneater

Kholek Suneater, is he where it's at, for the ultimate final word in killing power? With all his rules, his ranged attack AND his epic statline, d3 wounds 1+ save and more, is kholek as great as I think he is?

In combat he's 7 attacks at S8, then 1d6 thunderstomp...
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-10, 01:30 PM
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Cannonball 1 hits, wounds on a 2+ with no save... cannonball 2 hits, wounds on a 2+ with no save and kills Kholek...

He is an absolute monster on offense, but he isnt all that hard to deal with if you have the right tools. He cannot get a look out sir (even for being close to a unit) and he needs to kill enough to get rid of steadfast in pretty much everyone. He is certainly nasty, and very few opponents will be able to beat him in combat, with no ward/regen and without the ability to hide in a unit you can target him with the things you need to target him with (unlike an ogre/minotaur character, who can be almost as strong, but which are very difficult to kill before they get to you).

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-10, 02:35 PM
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Maybe if you could cover him from Cannonballs with a Tzeentchian Warshrine without blocking his charge he could get his points back. After all, all he needs is getting into close combat, perhaps supported by Knights. Or he could be the support. Oh and don't forget he can challange characters, which can be a nasty thing if theres a Kazrak-type slaughterer in the front rank, then you hit his unit from the side, challenge and bye-bye Scourge... along with Kazrak, of course.

The fool, the coward, and the ignorant proclaim that the warp is a realm of unknowable peril and indescribable terror, that it is the hell of countless ancient myths and legends. This is a lie, told by those whose authority is based on lies, to keep the masses terrified of the unknown. The warp is limitless power and its secrets are infinite; it is knowledge and strength, life and death, and the untapped potential to make and remake worlds. It takes only the discipline and the will to shape it; those who lack that clarity of purpose are liable to be shaped by it instead.

- Ahzek Ahriman of the Thousand Sons
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-10, 02:38 PM
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He's very solid, but lack of Ward Save or Magic Defence leaves him open to all kinds of things that can 1 or 2-shot him without too much difficulty.

Pity, because I'd love to have him in my army (I already have a Shaggoth and Dragon Ogres).

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-10, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking that Kholek combined with two hellcannons would be brutally horrible for any opponant to face.

Remember it's unlikely he will die from two cannonballs, on top of that his lightning attack will do 1d6 S6, in the new war machine rules that gives him a decent chance of knocking out a cannon or so from a distance, combined with hellcannons, anyways, I had a list idea incorporating this beautiful Kholek Model (how could I not use such a model!)


Let me know what you think:

Kholek Suneater
Troll King Throgg
Exalted with BSB and Halberd
Level 2 Sorc with MoT and Spell Familiar
1 Unit of 9 Chaos Trolls
1 Unit of 9 Chaos Trolls

Hellcannon x2
Scyla Anfingrimm
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-10, 04:18 PM
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Yeah, its unlikely that he'll die from 2 cannonballs... but certainly not unreasomable to expect that he might. If neither failed to wound and the first gets 5-6 wounds then he's not looking too healthy. But yeah, he should just about survive 3 cannonballs if you arent unlucky.

@Khorothis- I think that being able to challenge could well be one of his biggest problems. Its especially bad if he isnt supported by a big unit of marauders (could use warriors.. though a big unit of warriors kills most things without needing support). If Kholek charges in alone regardless of him issuing a challenge or not the unit champ can accept/issue and so can force kholek into the challenge with him. The champ wont win, but it means the unit will only lose 1 model and yo can only get +6 combat res (and wont thunderstomp- you'll kil the champ with attacks and the thunderstomp must hit him, but cant if he dies at a higher I). That would mean that most units wouldn't break and would get to reform into their best formation vs kholek (such as facing him 5 wide to get extra ranks with BSB/mages on the front rank but not touching kholek). Then they get their magic phase to buff them up as much as possible (and possibly charge in flankers to give extra help).
... the most annoying thing that Ive ever done was charge a unit of 10 bloodletters with my HE star dragon in 7th. I thought I would kill all 10 on the charge and fly on through out of the charge arc of his bloodthirster... then he challenged me with the champ and explained he had standard of chaos glory on his BSB close by. Oddly my dragon didnt survive that one (though the bloodletters died and the BT only had 1W left).


As for the list... well it has 2 SC and a unique in there, so you can guess the standard response to it that you'll get from most vets, but at the same time it should be quite fun to use. Biggest problem I see is that it'll be hard to protect your BSB and sorcerer. If you had the points I would throw the BSB on a chariot, it would be save from the usual suspects (cannons and the like have bigger threats in this list) and if it does get trapped it can just charge and smash its way through most enemies.
I cant say Im a fan of Scyla... I had to actually look him up since Ive never seen or heard of him, but I just cant see what he's meant to do. He's not that hard to kill, and doesnt do much damage since he will average about 3 hits plus a stomp on most enemies (so 2-3 wounds a turn), which isnt really enough to do much. Then sheer volume of attacks will bring him down... then again, I use my slavegiant as a bullet magnet and he is +70pts for only +2W, but then not many will be fooled into shooting at him when kholek and Throgg are around.

... I really need to start doing empire/dwarves so I can get the 2-3 cannons I always want to use

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-04-10, 06:19 PM
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Mortars, Helstorms, and Flame Cannons is where it's all at these days matey.

It's reasonable to expect him to survive, but he's I1, and T6 - which basically means that he's striking last against a lot of units which are capable of putting out a serious amount of harm towards him, despite the 2+ Save. I don't know why, but Scaly skin is included in the Lore of Metal - annoying as fuck, as Searing Bolt will eat straight through him - it's not as though he's exempt from the counter magic.

if you're going for a monster, Galrauch is far harder - +5 to cast, knows all spells, capable of instagibbing an enemy character in an challenge (breath weapon = 2D6 toughness tests or die with no saves allowed), 3 Breath Attacks in total, including the fact that he can use poison and fire breath in the same phase for an additional 4D6 damage, and thunderstomp.

He has a 6+ Ward Save - which is reasonable - but back him up with dual shrine, and you're looking toasty when you can give him 3++ and MR3.

Combined with his Fly, and I6, and you're rolling. I can't see a reason why anyone would take heavens - firstly against WoC, as there's so few flyers, they lack KB, and Poison, so Curse doesn't have as much of an effect - Iceshard loses half of its effectiveness as there's no shooting worth taking, Convergence is really only of use if you can back it up with making wounds on 2's, or with 2+ AS's - against WoC, due to their strength and toughness, that negates a lot of units, Thunderbolt, D6 hits? Horrendous, despite the Strength, comet is the only spell that's reasonable, as it just closes off an approach, but due to the Lore, rest assured, that it will have dispells saved just for that. Chain Lightning would be hilarious if you kept all of your units within 12" of Kholek.

Target Trolls, Oh wait, Armour of the Storm, negates, frenzied Kholek, roll a dice, 1-3 negates, 4-6, choose another unit, oh shit, armour of the storm, negates, roll again etc.

But yeah, there's no real reason that someone will take LoH against WoC when the meta game says LoM/Death is a must. Skink Priests are rare these days now you can go dual Frog.

Remember that your list needs at least 2420points to be able to field Kholek. Of course, you can upgrade further, etc.

First thing I'd say would say drop the BSB - Throgg passes the reroll benefit onto Galrauch, Kholek, trolls, Ogres, Dragon Ogres, Warhounds, Giants, Shaggoths, Characters on Dragons, Manticores, and, best of all, Hellcannons. This gives you another 150 ish points to stock up on more Trolls.

Personally, I wouldn't run him until 3K, but as I said, I'd run Galrauch - this is my hoped for 3.5K list.

616
Galrauch, the Great Drake = 616

575
The Troll King Throgg = 175
Sorceror, L2, Lore of Death, Stream of Corruption, Infernal Puppet, Opal Amulet = 190
Sorceror, L2, Lore of Tzeentch, Skull of Katam, Third Eye of Tzeentch = 210

1080
6 Trolls = 270
6 Trolls = 270
6 Trolls = 270
6 Trolls = 270

720
4 Dragon Ogres, GW, AHW, Champion = 360
4 Dragon Ogres, GW, AHW, Champion = 360

505
Chaos Warshrine, Mark of Tzeentch = 150
Chaos Warshrine, Mark of Tzeentch = 150
Chaos Warshrine, Mark of Tzeentch = 150
Chaos Spawn = 55

3496

The Death Sorceror is aiming for Soulblight first of all (to make his Stream of Corruption deadlier, and let trolls wound on 2's, and also to let Galrauch just instagib pretty much anything he touches), but also if possible Doom and Darkness - combine with Pandaemonium, (and of course, the required Doll), and an army of Fear/Terror causers, and I'm looking at a potential 3's to hit, 2's to wound, hit back on 5's, wounded on 5's, regen save, if 2 are passed, then I roll on Eye of the Gods thanks to MM.

Dragon Ogres are severely underrated thanks to Knights - but with the new Stomp Rule, and the capability for 13 S7/17 S5 Attacks, they can really dish the dirt, and with a Champion benefitting from Eye of the Gods, they are really very nasty. Combine that with 16 wounds, and not losing hitting power until they suffer 4 wounds, and they'll walk through most hordes.

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a rectum spectrum, if you will
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-05-10, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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I understand the anti special character elements out there, but really, if you want a monster army, you HAVE to use throgg...

Kholek is fun to use, he's also immune to other lightning attacks, such as warp lightning and there's a few others around the place whose names escape me, generally they're quite nasty when they arise.

The army itself is very fast and highly resilient, the trolls can lay down the hurt versus armoured or light opponents and can really weather a beating back. (if I put them in units of 10 I can lay out 10 automatic vomit hits at S5...).

Unfortunately Throg is written to only allow leadership and re-rolls for break tests . You need a bsb to re-roll stupidity.

Anyways, next tourney I'll let people know how Kholek does...
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-05-10, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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I forgot to say, Galrauch also eats his own face regularly lol.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-05-10, 03:38 PM
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He does? Ld9 with a reroll? I've had that happen only once before in about 5 games of using him - I know chaos theory and all that, but the average of failing that is about 2%, or once in every 50 turns.

Good catch about the BSB though. I'lll probably swap the SoK Sorceror (not really needed) for the BSB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi Baji View Post
It's not a black and white question really, there are different shades of anal probing,
a rectum spectrum, if you will
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