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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Fluff on units and tanks...

Greetings again,

Beforehand, sorry if this has been discussed in another thread or belongs in another category and is a nub question/topic.

Now I know for the sake of weapons/gear/upgrades/options, that if a unit is listed on your army sheet is equiped with, say for exapmle, a sniper rifle on a space marine scout or a deathspitter on a tyranid warrior, that unit must have that item on it physically. I know folks who do proxy items in friendly games but for these tournaments, you must have it on the model for it to be legal/valid.

What I'm curious about on the flip side to that coin is if you assemble a model with optional wargear, just to make it more interesting or for flexability (not magnets for swords <-> guns <-> shields etc), are you required to account for it in its adjusted stats, abilities, and cost no matter what? The stuff below is what I'm wondering about since I'm working on these 2 armies...

- Tyranid biomorphes like toxin sacs, adrenal glands, flesh hooks, extended carapace (not with wings) on most units (I know wings change the unit type all together so not worried about them)
- Tyranid biomorphes like acid maw, implant attack, bio-plasma, tusked on units with regular heads and without enhanced senses/feeder tendrils
- Space Marine vehicle upgrades like pintle-mounted storm bolter, hunter-killer missile, extra armor (dozer blade is probably pushing it, but they do look cool on the tank)
- Space Marine character/infantry gear like grenades/bombs/knives/holstered pistols

Say I put glands and/or sacs on a tyranid because they look neat but don't use them normally and now they are on there incase I decide there's a time where they will really help out or I have left over points. If I want the sacs to increase the strength I up the stats and cost, but if I don't need the extra strength, I leave the stats alone and cost as is but the model has them on there.

Hope I'm not confusing anyone hehe and thanks.

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 08:26 AM
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You can model anything you want, and you don't have to pay for it. I recently bought a crisis suit with four weapons systems on it, not all could be used at the same time as there were not enough hard points on a suit, but modeling them is still perfectly fine. However, if you want to receive the benefits of an item you need to model it. The exceptions being standard issue items like frag and krak grenades or a bolt pistol on C:SM marines. Black Templar, since their grenades are upgrades must pay for the grenades and should have them modeled. That being said it all depends on the tournament you are going to.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 08:28 AM
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Some tanks I leave optional bits "unglued" so I can swap bits around, hence my razorbacks can double up as rhinos if I want etc. Other bits like smokelaunhers I have to glue on.

A lot of marine minis come pre modelled with grenades and purity seals and the like. for minor items like these I generally just announce at the beginning what has got what extra gear. Main weapons and armour type Im strictly wysiwyg, but little extras Im not so fussy with. Theres no way Im doubling up my minis to give me the option to have everything with or without grenades :D
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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What about siege shields/dozer blades on vindicators and possibly dozer blades on predators and the like? The vindi has the blade on there but what if I'm making a list for different opponent and I can't squeeze the points in for the thing either as a blade or shield? Am I going to have to cost it out as windi with blade/shield even if I don't want/have the room for it?

I know a dozer blade on a predator probably will never get used in a game/match for its function of difficult terrain rolls, but it does make the tank look cool and meaner imho. Would that be too far fetched to put them on the predator and not account for the cost/ability/stats of the blade regardless?
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 08:57 AM
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The size and ubiquity of the dozer blade on the vindicator I would probably be quite concerned about wysiwyg. Unfortunately I dont have any vindicators in my army to know how doable it would be to "pin" it to make it a clip on \ clip off piece? If it is possible to pin it you could glue the pins to the either the blade or the hull but leave the other end unglued and that way when the dozer blade is on it looks like normal and when its removes theres either small half pins sticking out or small holes remaining.

On the predator if you want options theres a front spikey bit that you can put on the front and say it "counts as" a dozer blade for terrain purposes if you want it for that game and on games where you dont its "just ornamental"

If its "just for looks" you could use the pinning idea above (if it would work) and that way if you do have a game with someone who likes to kick up about stuff like that you can take it off for the game.

Last edited by dtq; 03-05-09 at 08:59 AM.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Thats for going around the battlefield and making ork/nid kabobs. I just really like the dozer blade. Gives the feel that this tank means business. Thinking about that marine mini with the plasma gun "Because You Can" image and the dozer blade in same way hehe.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 09:42 AM
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It really depends on the nature of the tourny, if its full on competetive, WYSIWYG will be a major part of the nature of it, if its a small game tourny for beginners, they wont care so much, if you dont pay for it you cant use it, pretty simple. WYSIWYG is mainly there to make sure people actually use the weapons and such that models have for tournys. e.g. It may look like a missile launcher but its a heavy bolter, it just confuses people. With the dozer blade, I reckon they look awesome as well, and if you dont pay the points for it you cant use its ability, just make sure your opponent knows that, before they say " you failed a dangerous terrain test, re roll it you have a dozer blade" but as I said its there to make people use really obvious things, like a Lascannon as a Lascannon.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 11:36 AM
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WYSIWYG - what you see is what you get, is not a double edged sword. it works one way but not the other. Basically if a model has been upgraded to have the rules for a power weapon he should have a power weapon on him. Although if he doesn't get upgraded with a power weapon he may still wield it.

Basically a model has to have stuff modelled on them if they have the rules for it but they don't have to have the rules for everything modelled on them. The dozer blade unfortunately is quite big so it might be a bit too far with it but I have it on my vindicator yet I don't use the dozer blade or siege shield rule. It is extra armour as it's a massive sheet of metal infront of the tank.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-05-09, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Alrighty so if I go ahead and assemble a predator with full lascannons turrests/sponsons and add a dozer blade, pintle-mounted storm bolter, hunter-killer missile, extra armor (from FW), then I could field it as any of the loadouts in an army list as long as its on the model and I'm paying the upgrade cost?

So the same model could be used as:

Predator w/ TL Lascannons & Lascannon Sponsons for a certain cost..

or

Predator w/ TL Lascannons & Lascannon Sponsons & Dozer Blade & Extra Armor for a certain cost...

or

Predator w/ TL Lascannons & Lascannon Sponsons & Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter for a certain cost...

etc etc

Its not like I'm trying to proxy a bare rhino as a fully loaded predator hehe. Just wondering if I put a little more effort into a tank (which I like to do with models and mini's) I get a little more potential out of it (flexibility).

Thanks

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