Big Canoness retinue - 1. A good idea? and 2. Cheesy? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Big Canoness retinue - 1. A good idea? and 2. Cheesy?

The idea is for me to have a canoness (Blessed Weapon and brazier of holy fire) in a unit of 8 celestians (flamer, heavy flamer, imagifer and superior. Superior has brazier of holy fire and something else. not sure yet.) In addition, they are joined by a priest (eviscerator and brazier). They are all mounted in a rhino.

Now, this totals well over 300 points and contains 5 template weapons (three of which are one shot only). On the turn that I use these, I would be using divine guidance (for those who do not know, makes my shooting rending). This is where my question about cheesiness comes in, you see.

They are of course also beasts in close combat. 3+ to hit rerolling on the charge. More faith powers would make them unstoppable.

Is putting so many of my points in one basket a good idea? I'm almost certain it is, especially when faith powers come into it. But also, is such a tooled up HQ kind of ruining the spirit of the game? Is it the sort of thing that would be frowned upon at tournaments?

Thankyou and my apologies for what has turned out to be a damn long post.

EDIT: Yes I realise now that this was a really stupid idea. Thanks for your help in making me see this.

Last edited by roricon; 01-16-08 at 11:05 PM.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 11:53 AM
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1 - No.
2 - Not really.

You see they are only any good up close so against most opponents they wont let them get there.

May is not must.

If in doubt always choose the lesser of two weevils


just freaking do it ok?
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Yes but the rhino should last a turn with smoke launchers and extra armour, and then spirit of the martyr would give them invulnerable saves. I would have thought a unit with 3+ inv. would last long enough to get in there.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 11:59 AM
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Agreed....

The squad relies upon a specific situation to occur on the battle field. Any opponent who expects it or has seen it in play before will not allow that situation to occur. You'll have wasted a ton of resources on a unit that will be shot to death at range, or assaulted by speedier opponents. Even with Faith considered, 3+ rerollable melee attacks from sisters are still little more to be feared than Eldar Guardians or a handful of Guardsmen. Any dedicated combat unit will still munch on them, and usually expend less of their army's resources doing so. Wagering such a huge investment on the roll of a single Faith attempt is a bit foolhardy, I would say.

The only way I can see this unit working out, is if the Sisters army has more pressing threats bearing down upon the enemy, but ouside of Apocalypse, I can't see what those threats could be.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 12:09 PM
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They are of course also beasts in close combat. 3+ to hit rerolling on the charge. More faith powers would make them unstoppable.
And this is where your assumptions are flawed. They are not beasts in close combat, mostly due to the fact that they get few attacks, and require 5+ to hurt MEQs up close.

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Yes but the rhino should last a turn with smoke launchers and extra armour, and then spirit of the martyr would give them invulnerable saves. I would have thought a unit with 3+ inv. would last long enough to get in there.
A) Shooty armies can and will stop a rhino dead in its tracks, smoke or no smoke.

B) The unit is 10 strong, even with the Imagifier you'll still be looking at a fairly high chance of Spirit of the Martyr falling flat on its face. And that is not what you want to happen when the plasmaguns start firing.

C) They're only T3, so wounds from small arms fire will stack up alarmingly quickly, which in the majority of cases will not care much about whether the save is invulnerable or not.

The unit is also extremely expensive and will drain resources from elsewhere in your army to little gain. In short, it seems to be far from cost effective in a take all comers army.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 12:44 PM
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A 300 point one shot weapon? None of my units cost 300 points so even if I just let you drive up to me and fire, there is no way you will get your points back.

Just get something like a seraphim squad with a brazier and two flamers. Same thing for half the price.


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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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Hmm, well don't I look like a damn fool now. I suppose I really should have thought that through a little more.

Given the choice would you say a smaller (far less tooled up) retinue in an immolator, or a lone canoness with a jump pack would be a better idea?

Also, (seems a bit weird to ask in this thread but it's better than making a new one I guess), are there any situations in which priests are actually worth taking?
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 01:35 PM
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if you have repentia or acro flagellants, then preists are worth it.

A great tactician knows that victory is one part planning and nine parts faith

Remember Alex arrogance killed the person nobody liked.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 02:00 PM
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Still, the only *real* way to know is to try.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 01-16-08, 03:21 PM
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You really only have two outcomes with a beefed up HQ. Either you win very easily, or you lose horribly. You won't see any close fights. I played against a guy who had a 500 point HQ for a White Scars army. 12 men total in one squad. Commander, chaplain, power weapons, bikes. The whole nine yards. However if he did not have first turn, that unit would get chewed up horribly. The entire enemy force would focus their fire on this one unit. However, if he got first turn, he was in close combat at the end of the round. So it's a crap shoot. If you have to rely on getting first turn for your army, you've already lost.

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*sigh* I have to point out that despite what you see in games, lasrifles win wars. Just because lasrifles suck at killing superhuman killing machines in power armor does not mean that they are bad weapons. You are shooting them at the wrong targets. The most common enemy the Imperium faces is lightly armored humans armed with lasguns or autoguns, NOT SPACE MARINES.
-me
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