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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 02:01 AM Thread Starter
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Vyper Jetbike Tactics

I couldn't help but notice that very few lists include vyper jetbikes these days. I would like to see what people think about vypers in 5th edition and what they think the possible/best uses for them could be.

I think I would run them with 2 shuriken cannons, much the way that many people use warwalkers. This unit could hunt transports and then put pressure on objectives or harass enemy tanks. They cost more than warwalkers, but they're much faster and use a fast attack choice instead of heavy support.

What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 06:21 AM
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i use them with bright lances or scatter lasers and cannons in my jetbike army the bright lances for AV 14 and the scatter lasers for inf/transports
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 06:35 AM
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I use them with just the one shuriken cannon, as cheap as possible. Then i tend to use them as vehicle rear hunters, a cheap way to crack vehicles with armour 10 rears and youve always got an ifintary hunter too.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 07:16 AM
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I think their biggest problem is their low armor and BS, other than that though they're fairly cheap and could sit back with a BL and dart forward for objectives in the end.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 10:57 AM
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Vypers are very expensive for what they do. If you are just after some extra firepower, then warwalkers are a better option as they can pack 2X as many heavy weapons and not for twice the cost.(Ignoring shuriken cannons). If you are after hunting the rear armour of vehicles then guardian jetbikes are a better choice. Not only do the GJB's count as scoring, but you have the option to include a warlock with singing spear, this guy is guaranteed to damage a tank if it only has av10 on the rear armour(If he hits). This squad may cost slightly more than a shuriken cannon armed vyper, but it is far more survivable and gives you more options.

I'm not saying that vypers are bad, but they just cost too many points.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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I think you're right about that, and in my opinion, all Eldar fast attack is that way. Vypers' BS3 and low AV let them down somewhat, but they can still be good at many things, as so many people above have indicated. However, they do seem to just be too costly to be a good option.

I think all of the Eldar fast attack are just a bit too costly when something else in the codex could do the job for cheaper (and usually just as fast). All of them have the potential to be good. Hawks are used quite a bit as monolith-killers, spiders have their strengths as well, and I personally like spears quite a bit, although I can't deny that they're a lot of points and can be killed fairly easily.

Maybe this is something that will be addressed in the new codex?
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 06:12 PM
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If the army is about speed why are the fast attack so mediocre?
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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It seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it?

I think the main thing is that they cost too many points for squads that aren't good enough at the jobs that units must now have in 5th edition. Fast attack units can't claim objectives and they sacrifice lethality for speed (ours do, anyway), and therefore, they get overshadowed by two high-mobility eldar units: the wave serpent and the fire prism. Basically, the wave serpent is an extremely good, very fast transport that is available to a very large number of our infantry squads. This makes practically any troops or elites choice as fast (if not faster than) anything in fast attack. That means that our specialized and effective infantry units like dire avengers, fire dragons, and howling banshees tend to overshadow their fast attack counterparts, which are based more on speed as a primary goal and killing/countering certain things as secondary. Additionally, my personal favorite heavy support unit (and that of many Eldar players), the fire prism, provides a reliable way to kill several unit types anywhere on the battlefield. The fire prism is fast, it has better range than any fast attack choice, and two of them can basically counter anything. I like to say, "I have a prism cannon setting for that," about any unit someone else is particularly proud of, and that underscores just how much of an overshadowing effect this unit can have. So it seems that our fast attack units are stuck between great specialized aspect warrior infantry and great generalized firepower.

Honestly, though, I think that having a good transport unit and a good fast tank should not automatically mean that fast attack units aren't worth it. Many of our fast attacks have well-defined roles and they have intrinsic speed that they don't have to rely on transports for. The main problem with them is that they just pay too high a cost for that intrinsic speed. it's the same reason no one would take guardian jetbikes if they weren't scoring units. Just think how cool swooping hawks or warp spiders would be if they could claim objectives, but they can't, so we don't want to pay over 20 points per model for them. That's just my long-winded take.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-25-09, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduous Miles View Post
IHawks are used quite a bit as monolith-killers, spiders have their strengths as well, and I personally like spears quite a bit,
The thing with monoliths is that they are 235pts of non-necron models, making phase out easier. I've found that monoliths can cause a whole load of casualties, but they just cant make up for their 235pts.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-26-09, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
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The main problem I have with monoliths is how it allows the necron player to reroll WBB. You're probably right though. I'm leaning towards ignoring them more and more.

I wasn't referring to my own experience with the hawks, though. When I got after monoliths, I prefer witchblades or prism cannons.
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