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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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Default Competitive players vs WAAC players - Drawing the line

How often have you seen people saying...

"Competitive players are assholes"
"Competitive players just want to win and hate losing"
"Competitive players have bad sportsmanship"
"Competitive players take the fun out of the game"
"Competitive players are destroying the hobby"

etc etc

What i hope to do with this thread is draw a line. A line that most people seem to ignore. A line that this hobby NEEDS to draw to better understand the competitive players intentions.
This line is the line between being a Competitive player, and a WAAC (Win At All Costs) player.


Lets start with the WAAC player.
The WAAC player is the type of player who only plays to win. They take pride in their wins, and seek to achieve them in any way possible.
When a WAAC player is defeated, typically they are disappointed, and dont take it very well.
Their tactics generally involve exploiting certain loopholes in the rules, which often take the fun out of the game.
If the WAAC player loses a couple of games, they will seek a new army list off the internet that somebody else had success with, and try again.

The problem is that the WAAC player is typically "lumped" into the same category as the competitive player, which drags down the reputation of the competitive players.
Think of it like young "hoons" that do burnouts and race on the roads. While it is true that all young hoons are indeed young drivers, it doesnt mean that all young drivers are hoons. Yet the hoons are lumped into the young drivers category and subsequently the reputation of the young driver is ruined.
The same goes for the competitive player and the WAAC player.
While it is true that all WAAC players are competitive players, it doesnt mean that all competitive players are WAAC players.

So, what is a competitive player?

Well, i consider myself to be a competitive player. I like to use effective units, and pride myself on building lists that can adapt to all situations.
I am very interested in the mathematics of the game, and constantly use mathhammer and certain strategies during the game.
I am proud of my wins, as i can reassure myself that my strategy both on the table and building my army list was effective.

HOWEVER

I enjoy having fun a LOT more than i do winning, it is a game after all.

Losing is not the end of the world for me. I am actually quite happy for somebody to beat me, as it gives me another aspect of my army or a tactic that i need to improve.
I am a very fun player to play against. I always try to congratulate the opponent with everything that they do. Even if its something as simple as them winning a combat, i will always say "nice work " or "well done ".
I usually find myself in the top 10% of sportsmanship scores for the tournaments that i attend.

Being a competitive player is perfectly natural. Even animals and plants compete against each other, its what our species does to survive.
Some people are competitive at playing, some are competitive in their painting, some in their modeling. It differs between people.

However, there is a line. This invisible line that needs to be drawn. Not with pencil, but with a great big paint roller so everybody can see.

I have been harassed by certain people on the internet (who shall remain anonymous) claiming that competitive gamers like myself who use mathhammer are destroying the hobby, and assume that i am a terrible person to play against.
If they actually played against me, they would see that i enjoy having fun FAR more than i enjoy winning, and can guarantee that regardless of who wins that we can both walk away having thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

This thread is purely to try and make people realize that there IS a difference between a competitive player and a WAAC player, and i hope that people can try to draw a line in their mind between the two.

Im sure that there are plenty of players who have the exact same view as me, and are sick to death of being categorized as a WAAC gamer just because they build competitive lists.
This thread is for you.


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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 07:16 AM
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I have been invited several times to a games day held by a near local gaming club. These members I generally divide into two types.

Competitive players, hobbyists who enjoy the hobby for what it is but still take it seriously enough to play for the win. Several of these people are also friends who have been members of the club for some time, and imo they do it great credit.

But then there are the WaaC players, or as I like to call them, the elitist pricks. They hold a very narrow, almost puritan view of what the game should be, even going so far as to modify the rules to suit their own house rules, even applying these changes to the tourneys they organise. Most of them only play WHFB or Warmachine, purely because they liked the predictable flow of the game.

One of my happier moments came when the new edition of WHFB was released. No longer was there the possibility of writing lists that would win 90% of the time. There was actually a random element to the game now, and even the best lists could be destroyed by the use of a good spell with a lucky roll. (Damn Lore of Life to Hell!)


Basically, I didn`t want to join the club. I am a 40k player, and most of them barely even acknowledged the game existed, viewing it as a kids game and not worth their time. You can see why I call them elitist pricks.

I fully understand the difference, Cheese. I am a fluff player, my lists are almost always themed. I will avoid some themes if they result in a power list, simply because I don`t want to play a blunt game. I like the game to have a bit more depth.




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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 07:33 AM
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Problem is cheese there are only two types of gamers allowed by the national gaming board of great Britain, so you either fall into "competitive" or "hobbyist", these basically translate to "arrogant whiney bitches who smell like gas" and "dreamer nice guys with huge manhood's"
Sorry but thats just how it is.

HUGE BITZ RESTOCK NOW ON
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 07:48 AM
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You can add the : Assholes 'Who look down on you' to that list.
I have something of a stray goldfish for a memory most of the time and i occasionally forget part or the whole of a rule, completely by misake; yet these guys look down their noses at you and point out the error like the sun shines out of their ass and you are stupid.

I'm more of a hobbyist than a serious gamer as i have always been more artist than anything else.
Sometimes I'd like to categorize them with a fist in the face, It pisses me off no end.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitsandkits View Post
... "dreamer nice guys with huge manhood's"....
Fortunately we are also all too modest to rub your face in it

More seriously I think King of Cheese has highlighted the dividing line very well; competitive gamers are toward the right end of the conflict versus art scale but not off the end.

I also view the divide as being in when the respective groups get their fulfilment: a competitive player enjoys the cut-and-thrust of the game, takes pleasure in his opponent using a particularly cunning plan and in adapting to counter the same, whereas a WAAC player takes pleasure in having won and not how they got there.

The odd thing is that the opposite end of the scale from WAAC, people who collect and paint a perfect representation of a particular unit but never play, get no bad press at all
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 11:36 AM
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Wow. There sure is a lot of "competitive vs casual" threads going around these days...


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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperious View Post
Wow. There sure is a lot of "competitive vs casual" threads going around these days...
Of course there are; do you think any of us could let some one else's thread get the prefect definition first?
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
Of course there are; do you think any of us could let some one else's thread get the prefect definition first?
Touché.


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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
The odd thing is that the opposite end of the scale from WAAC, people who collect and paint a perfect representation of a particular unit but never play, get no bad press at all
Damn them, I hate not playing against them and their perfect display models.

Your toast has been burnt and no amount of scraping will get rid of the black bits.

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-09-10, 01:56 PM
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Bravo! I'm in the same boat as you cheese and you have outlined the division very well.

+rep good sir!
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