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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 04:14 AM Thread Starter
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Power Gaming

Do any of you do it. Do you think it is wrong to use armour in 500pt games
do think that using a termie army is cheesy or what ever else seems to
say cheese. I will be the first to admit I am a cheese player I try to pack as much power as I can. Is the point of the game not to win?
Even though I lose more then I win I just like to make it a hard fought battle.

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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 04:18 AM
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I am not a power gamer, as I think that the point of the game is to have fun, and fight hard. However, if you are a power gamer and you lose, it should not be a big deal at all. Just learn from your mistakes and try again! Winning is not everything! But I think fielding a 500pt armoured force is fine!

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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 04:28 AM
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It's not a bad thing and quite frankly I wish there were more players that like to bring their A game all the time. It would elevate my game as well. I have two opponents that I love to play cause they make their best possible lists and have tactics to match.

There was times when I play that before the game I thought I would just throw the match and lose cause this guy I play on occasion doesnt seem to thrilled about the game anymore. My competative side didnt let me do that though. He, as most of the people I play have a dislike for "power gamers" and their lists and tactics reflect that. I feel bad when I win now. I guess thats why I haven't played in a while.

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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 04:38 AM
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I love making lists for armies (and posting them) and I admit that I try to engineer them to cause the most trouble for an opponent. That being said any epicly powerful list can be turned into a cluster by bad play. Having fun is the most important thing to me but I love trying to take down an opponent that is better than me. So if competition and especially tournament play is your thing power-game to your heart's content but if it's a friendly beer and pretzels game bring your a-game but don't flip out if you screw up.

That which doesn't kill me has made a tactical mistake.

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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 04:39 AM
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Define "power gaming."

Bringing an Armored Company to a 1000 points or less game? I think so.

Relying upon proven and effective troops types that your army WOULD use? Nope.

Using ONE trick over and over again because unless someone builds specifically to beat it, it always works? Again, I think so.

Personally, I find that if you have an all-comers list that works well, go for it.

This last Friday, I got handed a table-clearing loss. My Orks went up against a well-built, well-played Tau list. But, as the army I lost to revolved around Fire Warriors in Devil-Fish, a perfectly legitimate Troop choice? I don;t think my foe was power-gaming. He simply had the cure for the common Ork.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole Deschain View Post
This last Friday, I got handed a table-clearing loss. My Orks went up against a well-built, well-played Tau list. But, as the army I lost to revolved around Fire Warriors in Devil-Fish, a perfectly legitimate Troop choice? I don;t think my foe was power-gaming. He simply had the cure for the common Ork.
Agreed. Round 3 of the 'ardboyz qualifier here (which we did entirely for shits and giggles...with maybe one exception, nobody here's competitive like that) lasted all of about twenty minutes. My opponent, who was playing Tyranids, siezed the initiative, and his genestealers jumped on top of me without a moment to pull the trigger. Am I crying cheese for him bringing thirty-six genestealers to the table? Nah. I fought them off, but it cost me all of my Troops choices, and the scenario's victory conditions were based upon holding objectives. Moreover, I had no way to eliminate his Troops from the game, because he was using a squad of Termagants with Without Number to hold the objective in his back field. So I was done when my Tactical Squads were finished. Again, cheese? Nah. Good dice, and my bad luck, and that's all there was to it.

Power gaming is when you have no discourse to tactics, despite what you may say. It's when you go browsing online for the latest gimmick. The combination of units that may or may not be fluffy (admittedly, sometimes, they are) that takes advantage of game mechanics rather than any actual thought on the player's part. Lash of Submission comes to mind-- it actually is kind of fluffy to have a slaanesh daemon be able to have a siren song type effect, but it's used to pull squads into charge range of Khorne Berserkers, and that's where I throw the red flag. It's a gimmick, not any actual tactics. Tactics are manevuering your models, taking advantage of cover, timing your charges and coordinating shooting to its maximum effect, all by outwitting your opponent rather than relying on something you had to bring to the table. There's no strategy in using the Lash, for example... it takes advantage of the turn sequence mechanics to do what it does.

I'm guilty of bringing things to stop these little "killer combos"-- don't get me wrong. But I make them the minority of points spent in the army, and not the singular focus. Nobody can say anything to me when they look at my 2000 point army and see that half the points are in Tactical Squads, and I don't bring Elites generally, but still win through coordinated interaction between units.

I dislike power gaming. I really, truly do. When you act like you have to win at a game with little plastic spacemen at all costs, it reeks of tiny penis syndrome. Seriously, if you need to prove to people you're a real man, go get a degree, or become a noteworthy athlete amongst the local crowd, or something to that effect. Play with plastic spacemen because you can laugh about it, and at the end of the day, you like taking a stroll through the 41st millenium.

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 05:53 AM
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Power gaming should be thought of as a sliding scale. You should build lists on par or only marginally more powerful than you expect to face. Otherwise it's kind of power gaming.

The part about power gaming I dislike is that I can build a Tau list and give it to an 18 year old who is just starting, and he can win at least half his games at a tournament. I would prefer if the tournament rankings reflected the skill of the players at both building lists and playing the game. Personally I would participate in a tournament that is just a list building exercise, however I would hope it to be labeled as such.

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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlainari View Post
Personally I would participate in a tournament that is just a list building exercise, however I would hope it to be labeled as such.
That's sort of what 'ard boyz is. No painting, composition, or sportsmanship scores like a regular tournament... just bring whatever wins at any cost.

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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 06:16 AM
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And I have noticed after reading 5 reports on 'ard boyz that the quality of the lists is a very good way to determine how well they did. Sometimes I don't understand how people who post on forums can build such bad lists, obviously not everyone is inclined to listen to advice. This is good otherwise 'ard boyz would be very boring.

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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-08, 07:13 AM
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Again, I agree. Internet lists tend to be very gimmick-focused, and not things that work well if you're actually sitting around thinking about how the army interacts with itself. A balanced army that's able to hit hard where it matters and take all comers equally without relying on a single combination of wargear on a given model or squad always will do better. That's not even just a tournament thing, that's just in general. I don't have seperate lists for tournaments and for pickup games... partially because if I go to a tournament it's because it's a day of gaming and I don't give a damn if I win, but also partially because I bring the same proportion of units either way.

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