Move away from Space Marines - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Black Library Fiction Here is where you can discuss your favourite Black Library publications and graphic novels. If it's published by Black Library it goes here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 12:20 AM
Senior Member
 
Obinhi's Avatar
Obinhi's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ward Arkansas
Posts: 279
Reputation: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown View Post
The issue as it stands (or rather, as it stood about a year ago when Space Marine was mandated as the proper term) is that just saying "Astartes" isn't a preference, it's incorrect. Adeptus Astartes evidently means "Adepts of the Stars". You can use it as an organisational title, but that's about it.
that and I could be wrong but I was under the impression that the Adeptus Astartes included the support functionaries of the legions. You know, the cooks and mop pushers.

The IG are proof that good things come to us who wait. I've been Guard since 3rd ed. I been in the store and remember getting 5 boxes of men (when they came in 20 man boxes) 3 Commissars and praying that I might survive til turn 4. I've stuck it out, and you know what I have to say? WHO'S DYING NOW HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

Obinhi is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 12:22 AM
Senior Member
 
Hachiko's Avatar
Hachiko's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 218
Reputation: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown View Post
The issue as it stands (or rather, as it stood about a year ago when Space Marine was mandated as the proper term) is that just saying "Astartes" isn't a preference, it's incorrect. Adeptus Astartes evidently means "Adepts of the Stars". You can use it as an organisational title, but that's about it.
What about in terms of a Space Marine thinking in first person? Do they they think, for example, 'humans wouldn't understand this or that, they are only human while we are Astartes', or would it be 'blah blah blah yadda yadda Space Marines', or 'ditto Chapter Name'?
Hachiko is offline  
post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 12:24 AM
Grand Lord Munchkin
 
gen.ahab's Avatar
gen.ahab's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Eugene, OR, USA
Posts: 6,969
Reputation: 16


Well, that is an entirely reasonable argument for not using "Astartes" to refer to individual marines. However, calling each marine a "space marine" all the time just seems like it would get irritating. It just seems like it would be too long.
gen.ahab is offline  
post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 01:18 AM
Senior Member
 
Iron Angel's Avatar
Iron Angel's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,265
Reputation: 13


Space Marine sounds way too generic and downright childish to say. If I'm talking to someone, and they ask me about 40k, and I say "Space Marines", they give me a funny look and immediately stop taking me seriously. But if I say "Adeptus Astartes" they actually become interested.

Iron Angel is offline  
post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 01:33 AM
Senior Member
 
Dead.Blue.Clown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 456
Reputation: 7


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachiko View Post
What about in terms of a Space Marine thinking in first person? Do they they think, for example, 'humans wouldn't understand this or that, they are only human while we are Astartes', or would it be 'blah blah blah yadda yadda Space Marines', or 'ditto Chapter Name'?
Same thing as above. "Astartes" just doesn't apply in that context anymore.

I'm not saying I prefer Space Marine. As the author guiltiest of using Astartes instead of Marine or Space Marine, it's obvious which I preferred. But the changeover is locked solid now.
Dead.Blue.Clown is offline  
post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 01:37 AM
Senior Member
 
Rems's Avatar
Rems's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,717
Reputation: 19


Do you know (and are able to tell us) the reason for the change? I suppose i can understand it from a marketing point of view what with all the Space Marine stuff in the tabletop game labelled as "Space Marine". Though i would have also thought that going with a term that is solely/recognisably their own; "Astartes" (i don't know any other setting that uses that term) would be good to set them apart from every other setting that uses space marines (which is most sci fi).


Last edited by Rems; 04-02-12 at 01:49 AM.
Rems is offline  
post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 10:49 AM
Senior Member
 
Xisor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 210
Reputation: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rems View Post
Do you know (and are able to tell us) the reason for the change? I suppose i can understand it from a marketing point of view what with all the Space Marine stuff in the tabletop game labelled as "Space Marine". Though i would have also thought that going with a term that is solely/recognisably their own; "Astartes" (i don't know any other setting that uses that term) would be good to set them apart from every other setting that uses space marines (which is most sci fi).
I think that's part of the point. GW aren't trying to set themselves apart, they're trying to ensure if becomes a definitive, unified front. Such that when someone says 'space marine', you immediately think 'hulking, power armoured, genehanced warrior carrying the geneseed of the primarchs', not 'GW or that other setting?'

It's quite an aggressive stance to make, but also one which probably won't have verifiable/measurable results. A nice notion from the company's perspective.

There's also the undercurrent of 'Astartes' not being a word. That sounds like it's a big part of the motivation from the GW side too. "It is not correct to say 'Astartes', the phrase only makes sense when 'Adeptus Astartes' is said." Similarly, saying "Adeptus" on its own is probably a bit of an odd/over-general term. (Which has long bothered me with Ben's novel Dark Adeptus, should've been Dark Mechanicus .)

Anyway, the 'silliness' of Space Marine as a phrase is diminished with use and conviction. Space Wolf sounds silly. Space Marine just sounds a bit odd. It's not the worst word out there though.

"What's that?"
"The wooden thing in the living room?"
"Yeah."
"That's the fireplace."
"The what?"
"Fireplace. It's the place where the fire goes."
"Top-notch naming skills, there."

Personally, I'm much more vexed by the appellation of 'brother-' to things. 'Brother-sergeant', for example. It seems ham-fisted. Too close to 'Wolfclaw' and 'Bloodmissile'. Even keeping the feel & unity pursued by using 'Space Marine', I think authors and creative wits can be a bit cannier in their approach to semiotics, innuendo & themes.

(McNeill, Abnett & Wraight did very well in their "There's Something About Magnus" trilogy.)
Xisor is offline  
post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Hachiko's Avatar
Hachiko's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 218
Reputation: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown View Post
I'm not saying I prefer Space Marine.
But the changeover is locked solid now.
Didn't think so from your past work.

This is obviously a 'from above' mandate. I just wonder if this trickles down from the Board of Directors, which assumes (hopes) that the link of using "Space Marine" often enough in the print matter will translate to more folks going to the GW website and buying more figures, or someone in the managerial/operating capacity that collects author/customer feedback and makes the most intelligent logistical decision from there. I'm assuming the latter is not the case here.

I'll admit, as a fairly new BL reader, I knew at first (obviously) what Space Marines were, but the first time I heard Adeptus Astartes it threw me for a loop. But hey, we have that thing called the internet so I could figure it out right quick. Personally I like when the Marines refer to themselves as Astartes and regular people refer to them as Space Marines. But hey, the $100-200 I spend yearly on BL products ain't gonna carry my opinion too far.

Last edited by Hachiko; 04-02-12 at 12:27 PM.
Hachiko is offline  
post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 11:33 AM
Bane of Empires
 
Child-of-the-Emperor's Avatar
Child-of-the-Emperor's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Posts: 5,132
Reputation: 19


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown View Post
The issue as it stands (or rather, as it stood about a year ago when Space Marine was mandated as the proper term) is that just saying "Astartes" isn't a preference, it's incorrect. Adeptus Astartes evidently means "Adepts of the Stars". You can use it as an organisational title, but that's about it.
I've gotta say, I don't care that it is technically incorrect, you won't find me using the term "Space Marines" - cringeworthy in my opinion.

I'll stick to "Astartes". Of course though, that is just little ol' me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
Child-of-the-Emperor is offline  
post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 04-02-12, 11:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Iron Angel's Avatar
Iron Angel's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,265
Reputation: 13


Iron Angel is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Fiction, Art and Roleplay Game Discussion > Black Library Fiction

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome